December 11, 2016 at 11:23 pm #2720
Hello. Been searching all over the web for correct info but haven’t gotten consistent info. I’m a vyvanse user who has experienced 2 things. Lessening of efficacy which has led me to dose twice per day for add symptoms , but also a general anxiety while using the medication. When I remove the med I am unfocused etc. I’ve tried other stims but found vyvanse provides the best focus and also the worst anxiety. My goal is to do this 1) find a stack that can keep the effects of the med coming and possibly even lessen or discontinue one or both doses. And 2) lessen the anxiety I have on the medication. I have no issues with sleep it is more of a general nervousness throughout the day that is greatly affecting my life! Help! I do not want to use a lot of supplements. Just very simple but effective if that’s at all possible. I’ve been looking at l theanine and magnesium specifically but am confused as to if this is correct as well as dosages and type to get. Thank you so much !!! JenniferDecember 12, 2016 at 3:03 pm #2722
Jennifer, this is a little complicated so stick with me. From your description of symptoms, it sounds like you don’t have enough neurotransmitters to support Vyvanse. Which is likely the reason you had to up your dosage.
Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine) is a ‘prodrug’ of dextroamphetamine which means it is inactive until your red blood cells break it down into dextroamphetamine and l-lysine.
Dextroamphetamine then helps the associated transporters release more dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin from their storage sites in your neurons. If you don’t have enough of these neurotransmitters available then you won’t experience the intended effects of Vyvanse as much. And you can experience anxiety and irritability due to not enough serotonin and/or dopamine. (Or too much dopamine which is unlikely in your case).
L-lysine is important too because it helps produce Acetyl-CoA which is necessary to produce acetylcholine. Which helps everything in your brain communicate among other things.
The only really accurate way to find out your levels of neurotransmitters is to get tested. And then you have a better idea of what you need to fix. Otherwise, it’s a guessing game and lots of experimenting.
First, I suggest you take a good B-Complex vitamin which includes B9 folate (not folic acid) and B12 methylcobalamin (not cobalamin). With Magnesium-L-threonate. All necessary to make neurotransmitters.
Next I’d try Rhodiola Rosea to help boost serotonin. But we also encounter another problem with using stimulants long-term. They seem to be hard on neurons and wear them out. To counter this issue you can use Lion’s Mane Mushroom to help repair and grow new neurons (neurogenesis).
I know this sounds like a lot but please believe me that it’s worth it in the long-run. It took me years to figure out how to make this all work. I still use Ritalin and have not had to increase my dose because I give my brain what it needs to make good use of Ritalin.
To save money you might want to try Mind Lab Pro which is my favorite pre-made nootropic stack which includes most of the above. Although I still supplement with a good B-Complex vitamin and magnesium. And I use double the recommended dose of Mind Lab Pro because I’m severely Adult ADD. One dose in the morning and one at noon.
Please report back with how this works for you. And what you finally settle on that works best. Everyone’s body is different and what works for me may not work as well for you.
And one final note: I am not medical doctor and don’t even play one on TV. These are all suggestions from a guy with ADD who has done his homework. 🙂 Good luck!
December 12, 2016 at 10:38 pm #2724
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by David Tomen.
Wow thank you so much for that info. I will take your advice. I an still wondering though , with all of the mentioned supplements , will the anxiety also be addressed ? I believe this is the most troublesome for me as its caused me to stop Vyvanse many times because it’s such a terrible feeling. Then , I restart again when I begin to struggle with focus.
Will this stack address this ? Also just to be clear , the premade supplement you mentioned AS WELL as a additional B-Complex and magnesium. Correct? I will look into this tonight.
I can’t thank you enough. I’ve been extremely worried about this! You are clearly quite knowledgeable Jennifer
December 13, 2016 at 12:04 am #2726
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by David Tomen.
Jennifer, I suggest you do a search on NootropicsExpert.com (use the search feature at the top right) for “anxiety” and see what turns up. There are several nootropics that I did not mention that also address anxiety. And it would have been overwhelming for anyone if I had talked about them.
As I mentioned, you have no way of knowing for sure what’s going on with your neurotransmitters. If serotonin is low you’ll feel anxiety. If dopamine is too high or too low you’ll feel anxiety. If norepinephrine or epinephrine is out of whack you’ll feel anxiety. If GABA is low you’ll feel anxiety.
This is why we experiment with nootropic supplements until we find something that works. But they may not work forever. I’m adding to and subtracting from my stack the more I learn. And as my body changes. It’s also why we say “start low” when starting something new. To find out how your body reacts.
To answer your question about Mind Lab Pro + a high-quality B-Complex, my answer is yes. There are a couple of RDA-level B-Vitamins in that stack. But for me, not nearly enough. And I have a suspicion would not be enough for you either considering your issues.
Nootropics are as much an art as they are a science. We have decades of clinical research to draw from. But only about 20 years of practical real-world experience. And only about 5 – 10 years of people really sharing their experience with nootropics. Again, it’s why we experiment.January 31, 2017 at 3:57 am #2968
I am a Vyvanse user who is also experiencing a lessening of efficacy. I have just ordered the Mind Lab Pro supplement after hours of research, including some of your material (thank you, btw). My supplements should arrive in a couple of days, just in time for me to start my training program back up. I do have a question, when do you think I should take the Mind Lab Pro, before or after taking Vyvanse? I was considering exercising before taking Vyvanse, which would be around 6 am and the reason for this is that there are times where I feel some discomfort in my breathing or shortness of breath; I am associating these symptoms with increased heart rate. I am no stranger to intense workouts which typically put me between 85 – 95% of my MHR, so this is where I become concerned with the order of consumption. My initial thought was that I should take the stack after Vyvanse, but then it occurred to me that the stack would help improve my performance at the gym. Does it make sense to take the stack, workout and then take the Vyvanse? as I am using the supplement to increase the efficacy of Vyvanse.
My initial thought was that I should take the stack after Vyvanse, but then it occurred to me that the stack would help improve my performance at the gym. Does it make sense to take the stack, workout and then take the Vyvanse? as I am using the supplement to increase the efficacy of Vyvanse.
One more thing to consider, I work long days. I am a coder/ software developer and my days can range anywhere from 10- 14 hour days, starting at 8am. Vyvanse typically only lasts an average of 8 hours for me and then it becomes difficult to concentrate. I am working on work/ life balance but need some advice interim considering that this will not happen overnight.
Any advice that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
-LeticiaJanuary 31, 2017 at 1:48 pm #2970
Vyvanse, as you already know is a “pro-drug”. Which means that once your body digests it, Vyvanse is converted to dextroamphetamine. This amphetamine is a dopamine transporter inhibitor.
This mechanism of action allows the neurons to release dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin from their storage sites and the presynaptic neurons. And prevents the reuptake of these neurotransmitters from the synaptic cleft. Leaving more of these neurotransmitters to be used again and again rather than degraded.
I’m convinced that my brain is low (for whatever reason) on these neurotransmitters. And if I didn’t provide a way for my brain to make more. Ritalin would not work as well.
This is a long-winded way of suggesting you take Mind Lab Pro and whatever else is in your stack before or at the same time as Vyvanse.
To understand how this all works, please scroll down to “Mechanism of action” and “Pharmacokinetics” sections in this article > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine. And see if you can wrap your brain around the first couple of paragraphs in each section.
Look for the neurotransmitters affected. And the half-life of Vyvanse and how it’s influenced by the pH of your system. You may be able to extend the time Vyvanse is active in your system with a more alkaline diet.
I take my last dose of immediate release Ritalin at noon. Around 3 – 4 pm I take ALCAR 800 mg and NALT 800 mg. I’ve found that this helps prevent a stimulant ‘crash’. And the effects of Ritalin say with me until I run out of gas at the end of my day.
You may also consider adding Creatine to your stack. Please read that article and see if you think it could help your workouts.
And just a gentle reminder. I’m not a doctor. Please consult your doctor about any concerns you have. Good luck and let me know how this all works out for you. Your experience could help some others with similar issues.
February 1, 2017 at 9:23 pm #2974
- This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by admin.
Thank you so much for all of the information you provided and your input with regards to the Mind Lab Pro.
I do use creatine for my workouts however (and please correct me if I am wrong) it appears that based on the article for creatine, that I should probably switch my supplement. I just read on the bottle that it is a Create Magnesium Chelate and in addition to this it has a Trademarked propietary non-bloating blend which includes L-Arginine AKG, Beta Alanine and Capsicum Annum. This sounds like more of a pre-workout than it does a creatine supplement. I’m probably better off with just purchasing a clean creatine monohydrate.
I am going to look this up as well, but will the Mind Lab Pro also help with the terrible mood swings that Vyvanse is giving me or should I look into adding an additional nootropic to the stack?
Again, thank you!February 1, 2017 at 9:30 pm #2975
Letty, Mind Lab Pro will help with mood swings somewhat. It may take 2 or 3 weeks of supplementing with it to get the full effect.
BTW, since I’m using Ritalin everyday and my brain doesn’t make dopamine like it should. I double my dose of Mind Lab Pro. I use their recommended dose first thing in the morning. And another dose at noon. I don’t suggest you do that until you try it for 2 or 3 weeks.
Also, do a search on NootropicsExpert.com for the keyword “mood” when you can. You’ll notice that some of the nootropics that come up are in Mind Lab Pro. Depending on the severity of your mood swings, you may want to add a separate supplement for something like Rhodiola to boost what’s in MLP.
But I wouldn’t do that until you use MLP for a couple of weeks. And see how your body and brain react.
Let me know how it goes… 🙂
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by David Tomen.