5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan or oxitriptan) is an amino acid that is naturally produced in your body. 5-HTP is synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan which we get from food.
5-HTP is the immediate precursor of serotonin. And as a nootropic and dietary supplement, 5-HTP is popular with those who advocate its effectiveness in treating depression. Along with a number of other serotonin-related diseases.
But using 5-HTP for treating depression and anxiety is not supported by science. The research is contrary to how 5-HTP is viewed by many, including medical doctors.
When we dig into the research, we find that 5-HTP may be contraindicated for depression in those whom marketers advocate its use.[i]
We’re all for boosting neurotransmitter levels and optimizing cognitive performance here at Nootropics Expert. But now and again we run into a nootropic or dietary supplement that may be popular. But also may be a particularly bad idea.
We’re going to get to the bottom of how 5-HTP works in your brain in this post. We’ll examine why it’s critical for brain health. And reasons why you may want to find another way to boost serotonin levels in your brain.
5-HTP helps:
- Anxiety & Depression. 5-HTP is synthesized into serotonin in brain cells. Elevating levels of serotonin can help relieve the symptoms of anxiety and depression.
- Neurotransmitters. 5-HTP is a necessary ingredient for serotonin synthesis which boosts mood and social behavior, improves memory, regulates appetite and digestion, sleep, sexual desire and function.
- Brain Optimization. A critical balance of the primary neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine are needed for the highly optimized brain. When these neurotransmitters are not in balance it affects mood, memory, cognition, decision-making, sexual desire, and a host of other critical life functions.
Table of Contents
Overview
5-HTP (5-Hydroxytryptophan or oxitriptan) is an amino acid that’s synthesized from the essential amino acid tryptophan.
Tryptophan is hydroxylated by tryptophan hydroxylase to 5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan), then decarboxylated to serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine or 5-HT).[ii]
Tryptophan → 5-HTP → serotonin
80-90% of your body’s serotonin is made in your intestines. But serotonin cannot cross the blood-brain barrier. So all the serotonin that your brain needs has to be made within the brain. This is where 5-HTP comes in…
5-HTP crosses the blood-brain barrier more readily than tryptophan. And gets synthesized into serotonin at a faster rate than from tryptophan.[iii]
As a neurotransmitter, serotonin influences directly and indirectly, the majority of brain cells. So if you want to boost serotonin in your brain, some find that supplementing with 5-HTP is better than taking tryptophan.
Tryptophan, which your body uses to make 5-HTP, can be found in turkey, chicken, milk, potatoes, pumpkin, sunflower seeds, turnip and collard greens, and seaweed.
5-HTP as a nootropic supplement is a naturally occurring amino acid derived from seed pods of Griffonia simplicifolia, found in West and Central Africa. 5-HTP content in extracts of this plant vary from 2 – 20.83% (from seeds obtained in Ghana).[iv]
How does 5-HTP work in the Brain?
5-HTP is a precursor to serotonin. The neurotransmitter serotonin plays a role in sleep, appetite, memory, learning, mood, and sexual function.
When tryptophan’s role in converting to 5-HTP for boosting serotonin doesn’t work efficiently, the result is often depression, chronic headache and insomnia.
An open-label trial was conducted in Italy to determine the efficacy of using 5-HTP in young subjects with high levels of “romantic stress”.
Serotonin has been linked to human romantic attachment. So researchers in this study set out to determine brain levels of Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) and serotonin in relation to changes in romantic stress during the study.
15 healthy subjects (mean age 23.3 years) who had a “romantic breakup” took part in the study. Participants received 60 mg of Griffonia simplicifolia extract containing 12.8 mg 5-HTP daily for 6 weeks.
The subjects were evaluated for BDNF and serotonin levels at the beginning of the study, at 3 weeks and then again at the end of the 6-week trial.
The scientists observed significant improvements in romantic stress scores from weeks 0 through 3. So far, 5-HTP seems to be working. But no further improvement was seen from weeks 3 through 6. Even though the young people had significantly higher levels of BDNF and serotonin.[v]
More Involved in Depression and Stress than Serotonin
This “romantic breakup” study is a classic illustration of why using 5-HTP alone to treat depression and stress may not work. And if it does work, why it may not work for long.
Depression is often more than simple serotonin dysfunction. Depression can also be associated with catecholamine dysfunction, including dopamine and/or norepinephrine. Or a combination of serotonin and catecholamine dysfunction.
When you take 5-HTP alone, you are also depleting dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. Synthesis of serotonin from 5-HTP, and dopamine from L-DOPA is catalyzed by the same enzyme, L-aromatic amino acid decarboxylase (AAAD).
Dopamine and serotonin precursor supplementation must be taken in proper balance. Because when you use only 5-HTP, it dominates dopamine at the AAAD enzyme synthesis level.
Blocking dopamine synthesis at the AAAD enzyme through competitive inhibition will lead to depletion of dopamine and the rest of the catecholamines.[vi]
Going back to our Italian study of young people dealing with “romantic stress”, the subjects stopped responding to 5-HTP in the 2nd half of the study. Likely because their catecholamines became depleted through continuous 5-HTP supplementation.
Studies have found that when dopamine is depleted enough, 5-HTP will no longer function.[vii]
Catecholamine Dysfunction Affects More Than Just Depression
When catecholamine neurotransmitter levels (dopamine and/or norepinephrine) influence depression, supplementing with 5-HTP alone is not the way to go. Because you may deplete dopamine and norepinephrine, worsening the disease and its underlying cause.
But this contraindication is not exclusive to depression. It extends to all other diseases where catecholamine dysfunction has been implicated. Including ADHD[viii], obesity, anxiety, seasonal affective disorder and Parkinson’s Disease.[ix]
How things go bad
Amino acid precursors of serotonin (i.e. 5-HTP) and dopamine (i.e. L-Tyrosine) work together during synthesis, metabolism and transport to the point that they function as one system.
When serotonin and dopamine are properly balanced, functions that are regulated only by serotonin, can be regulated by manipulating dopamine levels. And functions regulated only by dopamine in this balanced state can be regulated by manipulating serotonin.[x]
When you mess with this balance and improperly supplement with serotonin or dopamine precursors, you don’t get the desired effect of using that nootropic. And you increase the possibility of side effects.
If you supplement with only one precursor (i.e. 5-HTP to boost serotonin) that dominates the other system (i.e. dopamine synthesis), depletion of the dominated system will occur (i.e. depleted dopamine).
And if this effect is pronounced enough, you will not get the benefit you were aiming for when supplementing with the original precursor (i.e. 5-HTP).
A powerful example of this effect is in the management of Parkinson’s Disease where the effects of L-DOPA are no longer observed over time due to serotonin depletion.[xi]
Since serotonin and dopamine cannot cross the blood-brain barrier, the number of serotonin and dopamine molecules in the brain is a function of the amount of nutrients (amino acid precursors) that are available to be synthesized into new neurotransmitter molecules.
Optimizing brain function with minimal side effects is NOT a function of supplementing until you get sufficiently high amino acid levels. It’s a function of achieving the proper balance between serotonin and dopamine.
5-HTP to the rescue
5-HTP is absolutely critical for synthesis of serotonin in your brain. But supplementing with 5-HTP to boost serotonin does not work well.
Using 5-HTP to treat depression has had very little success over the last few decades of clinical trials and biohacking.
Integrating 5-HTP into your nootropic stack is much more complicated than simply adding some 5-HTP in order to boost serotonin.
5-HTP alone will not work for depression, or any other issue you’re dealing with involving the catecholamines (dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine) because of 5-HTP’s tendency to deplete those neurotransmitters.
5-HTP will boost serotonin in your brain.[xii] But 5-HTP must be carefully stacked with precursors for dopamine and norepinephrine or you risk making the situation worse.
You must avoid supplementing with only one of the serotonin or dopamine amino acid precursors. When amino acid precursors are not in balance, you end up with decreased effectiveness of that nootropic, increased side effects, and depletion of the non-dominant system.
How does 5-HTP feel?
Reactions to supplementing with 5-HTP vary considerably but the one consistent theme is initial feelings of well-being, better sleep, less need for sleep, improved mood, less social anxiety, lower appetite, improved tolerance for stress and improved cognitive function.
And after a couple of weeks of dosing 5-HTP side effects begin. Serotonin overload results in dopamine and norepinephrine depletion.
Side effects include feelings of lethargy, depression, brain fog, stomach pain, and headaches. Worst case scenario is nausea, vomiting and even blacking out.
Neurohackers who report consistent success supplementing with 5-HTP stack it with B-Vitamins, a dopamine precursor like NALT, and only use 5-HTP as needed.
Those who have a bad experience with 5-HTP from the start often have no idea why they’ve reacted badly. But an educated guess is their depression was catecholamine (dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine)-related. And boosting serotonin made their dopamine-related issues worse. Very quickly.
One huge word of WARNING: Do NOT take 5-HTP with any antidepressant medication. You put yourself in the very real danger of Serotonin Syndrome which can ultimately kill you.
The Research
5-HTP supplements are heavily marketed as a natural remedy for depression. But the science does not support using 5-HTP for depression. We have decades of clinical trials available. And there is no evidence of the efficacy in using 5-HTP for depression.
The Department of Public Health at the University of Queensland Medical School in Australia did a systematic review of literature dating from 1966 – 2000 for “5-HTP” and “depression”.
The researchers found 108 clinical studies of which only 2 studies, one with serotonin (5-HT) and one with L-Tryptophan for a total of 64 patients met sufficient quality criteria to be included. These studies suggest serotonin (5-HT) and L-Tryptophan are better than placebo at alleviating depression.
But the researchers noted “the small size of the studies, and the large number of inadmissible, poorly executed studies, cast doubt on the results from potential publication bias, and suggests that they are insufficiently evaluated to assess their effectiveness.”[xiii]
5-HTP for Fibromyalgia
A double-blind, placebo-controlled trial in Italy studied the efficacy of using 5-HTP in treating fibromyalgia symptoms.
50 patients with primary fibromyalgia syndrome were selected for this study. This 1990 study did not publish the amount of 5-HTP used. But the researchers found a significant improvement in fibromyalgia symptoms with only mild and transient side effects.[xiv]
5-HTP for Treatment of Depression
Insufficient activity of the neurotransmitters serotonin and norepinephrine is a central element of the model of depression most widely held by neurobiologists today.
In the late 1970’s and 1980’s, numerous studies were performed in which depressed patients were treated with the serotonin precursors L-Tryptophan and 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP), and the dopamine and norepinephrine precursors Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine.
A summary published in the Alternative Medicine Revue looked at the data from all these studies. The author noted that the nature of the studies makes it difficult to draw firm conclusions regarding the efficacy of neurotransmitter precursors for treating depression.
While there is evidence that precursor loading could work, particularly for serotonin precursor 5-HTP, more studies of suitable design and size “might lead to more conclusive results”.[xv]
Those studies have not materialized since that report was published 16 years ago.
Dosage Notes
Recommended dosage of 5-HTP if you’re going to try it is 50 mg 1 – 3 times per day.
Some studies have used higher doses than our recommended dose, but 5-HTP can be toxic at high doses.
For anxiety or depression, 5-HTP is dosed at 150 – 300 mg per day total.
To relieve post MDMA (Ecstasy) depression, 5-HTP 100 mg on Day 3-7 after MDMA use.[xvi]
Successfully supplementing with 5-HTP requires stacking it with a dopamine precursor like L-Tyrosine or L-DOPA along with B-Vitamins (for synthesis), and one of the sulfur-containing amino acids (methionine, cysteine, homocysteine, or taurine).
And you must monitor the effects this stack is having on your body. If you start experiencing side effects of any kind, it’s a good indication that either serotonin or dopamine is out of balance.
DO NOT combine 5-HTP with any kind of antidepressant medication.
Combining SSRI’s, Tricyclics or MAOI’s with 5-HTP will cause Serotonin Syndrome. An extremely dangerous condition involving severe mental changes, hot flashes, rapidly fluctuating blood pressure and heart rate, and possibly coma.
Serotonin Syndrome can kill you. And we’re not kidding here.
Side Effects
5-HTP supplementation can cause heartburn, heart palpitations, headache, stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, drowsiness, sexual problems and muscle issues.
5-HTP can also cause some pretty radical mood changes including agitation, aggressiveness, anxiety, euphoria, poor decision-making, irritability, psychosis, restlessness and insomnia.
5-HTP can make the symptoms of schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and other mental disorders worse.
And I can’t emphasize this enough so I’m going to repeat it here in case you missed it…
DO NOT combine 5-HTP with any kind of antidepressant medication.
Combining SSRI’s, Tricyclics or MAOI’s with 5-HTP will cause Serotonin Syndrome. An extremely dangerous condition involving severe mental changes, hot flashes, rapidly fluctuating blood pressure and heart rate, and possibly coma.
Serotonin Syndrome can kill you. And we’re not kidding here.
Available Forms
5-HTP is made from tryptophan in your body.
5-HTP as a nootropic supplement is made from extracts of the African tree Griffonia simplicifolia. 5-HTP supplements are typically in tablet or capsule form.
You’ll often find 5-HTP in many ready-made vitamin and herbal formulas.
Nootropics Expert Recommendation
5-HTP 50 mg up to 3-times per day
We DO NOT recommend using 5-HTP as a nootropic supplement.
Your body does synthesize 5-HTP on its own to make serotonin in your brain. And you can’t get 5-HTP from food. But you can get L-Tryptophan from food which is synthesized into 5-HTP in your body.
5-HTP may help you if you’re dealing with depression. But you must stack if with a dopamine amino acid precursor along with B-Vitamins and a sulfur-containing amino acid. See the “Dosage Notes” in this post.
IF you are going to try 5-HTP, we suggest starting with a dose of 50 mg daily. You may want to take it in the evening because it could help you sleep.
Short-term dosing of 5-HTP of no more than 2 weeks seems to provide the most benefit if you’re going to benefit from this nootropic.
Or try using 5-HTP only on an “as needed” basis. For a mood boost, improve social anxiety, and provide a short-term boost in cognition.
5-HTP supplementation on its own is NOT recommended. Nor is it recommended for long-term use.
[i] Hinz M., Stein A., Uncini T. “5-HTP efficacy and contraindications.”Neuropsychiatric Disease and Treatment. 2012;8:323-8. (source)
[ii] Turner E.H., Loftis J.M., Blackwell A.D. “Serotonin a la carte: supplementation with the serotonin precursor 5-hydroxytryptophan.”Pharmacology and Therapeutics. 2006 Mar;109(3):325-38. (source)
[iii] Birdsall T.C. “5-Hydroxytryptophan: a clinically-effective serotonin precursor.” Alternative Medicine Revue. 1998 Aug;3(4):271-80. (source)
[iv] Lemaire P.A., Adosraku R.K. “An HPLC method for the direct assay of the serotonin precursor, 5-hydroxytrophan, in seeds of Griffonia simplicifolia.” Phytochemical Analysis. 2002 Nov-Dec;13(6):333-7. (source)
[v] Emanuele E., Bertona M., Minoretti P., Geroldi D. “An open-label trial of L-5-hydroxytryptophan in subjects with romantic stress.” Neuro Endocrinology Letters. 2010;31(5):663-6. (source)
[vi] Hinz M., Stein A., Uncini T. “APRESS: apical regulatory super system, serotonin, and dopamine interaction.” Neuropsychiatric Disease and Treatment. 2011;7:457-63. (source)
[vii] Hinz M., Stein A., Uncini T. “Relative nutritional deficiencies associated with centrally acting monoamines.” International Journal of General Medicine. 2012;5:413-30 (source)
[viii] van Praag H.M. “n search of the mode of action of antidepressants. 5-HTP/tyrosine mixtures in depressions.”Neuropharmacology. 1983 Mar;22(3 Spec No):433-40. (source)
[ix] Hinz M., Stein A., Uncini T. “5-HTP efficacy and contraindications”Neuropsychiatric Disease and Treatment. 2012; 8: 323–328. (source)
[x] Hinz M., Stein A., Uncini T. “APRESS: apical regulatory super system, serotonin, and dopamine interaction.” Neuropsychiatric Disease and Treatment. 2011;7:457-63. (source)
[xi] Hinz M., Stein A., Uncini T. “Amino acid management of Parkinson’s disease: a case study” International Journal of General Medicine. 2011; 4: 165–174. (source)
[xii] Birdsall T.C. “5-Hydroxytryptophan: a clinically-effective serotonin precursor.” Alternative Medicine Revue. 1998 Aug;3(4):271-80. (source)
[xiii] Shaw K., Turner J., Del Mar C. “Are tryptophan and 5-hydroxytryptophan effective treatments for depression? A meta-analysis.” Australia and New Zealand Journal of Psychiatry. 2002 Aug;36(4):488-91. (source)
[xiv] Caruso I., Sarzi Puttini P., Cazzola M., Azzolini V. “Double-blind study of 5-hydroxytryptophan versus placebo in the treatment of primary fibromyalgia syndrome.” Journal of International Medical Research. 1990 May-Jun;18(3):201-9. (source)
[xv] Meyers S. “Use of neurotransmitter precursors for treatment of depression.” Alternative Medicine Revue. 2000 Feb;5(1):64-71. (source)
[xvi]Wang X., Baumann M.H., Dersch C.M., Rothman R.B. “Restoration of 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine-induced 5-HT depletion by the administration of L-5-hydroxytryptophan.” Neuroscience. 2007 Aug 10;148(1):212-20. (source)
I am experimenting here and there is such conflicting info out there. I was thinking about stacking l-tyrosine, l-theanine, and GABA. I need better focus and concentration and also relief from mild anxiety. Would those three things be ok? and what about dosages? The GABA I bought is 750mg but everything I read recommends no where near that high. like 100-275mg. I’m overwhelmed by all of this.
Heather, you will find dosage recommendations for each of these supplements here on Nootropics Expert (https://nootropicsexpert.com/nootropics-list/).
You’ll also find separate articles on boosting concentration and memory. And at least 2 articles on taming anxiety.
It’s all here for you. And in very easy to understand English. I suggest you start reading. 🙂
Hi,
I’ve used a supplement containing 60 mg 5-htp, 75 mg tryptophan, vitamin b3, B6, c, d3, selenium and magnesium citrate and betaine. I took 2 of these daily and experienced nightmares and problems with orgasms. I think I’ve used them for 2.5 week.(started on October 19th) it’s gonna be ten days since I stopped taking them but I experience strong anxiety, worse than before. I decided to try l-tyrosine 5 days ago, took 350 mg of nalt but the I experienced strong anxiety the second day. I dont have nightmares anymore although it’s still a bit harder to orgasm (I’m a female). Expect for the second day I took nalt.. My question is: is it possible that the supplements containing 5-htp are still causing me to experience anxiety more than before? I’m having rough times..
Nasha, it could be still causing your problems. It’s why I don’t recommend using 5-HTP and to use L-Tryptophan instead. Because chances are the dose you think was in that capsule bears no resemblance to what was actually in there. 60 mg is a low does and should not have caused that severe of a problem.
The half-life of 5-HTP ranges from 2.2 to 7.4 hours (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6187038/). So it is completely cleared from your system in less than 15 hours.
But you may be especially sensitive to supplements. And even 60 mg or 350 mg is too much for you.
Did you mean that it was easier to orgasm on your second day of using NALT? I suggest learning about how NALT (https://nootropicsexpert.com/n-acetyl-l-tyrosine/) works in your brain and how it produces more than just dopamine. Dopamine is certainly involved in libido and your sex hormones. But it also produces norepinephrine which could cause anxiety.
Thank you so much for your fast response! I took it two times a day so that would be 120 mg a day.. I only tried to orgasm the second day of taking nalt, but my main issue is the anxiety I am experiencing. I was having nightmares daily when taking 5-htp. I’m gonna try all of the supplements recommend for anxiety, one by one. I’ve started talking Alpha GPC today. I do use l-theanine daily, or shall I exclude it when trying the recommended supplements one by one?
Nahsa, if you want to get a true reading on how each precursor affects you I suggest not using L-Theanine while you are experimenting.
David,
I have been using 5HTP for years, after being advised to do so by a family member. I am dealing with depression and anger and considering some anti-depressants in the coming weeks after an appointment with my doc. I am glad I read your article, as I am thinking I shouldn’t be taking it anymore. I have been taking both 200mg 5HTP along with Bvitamins daily for the last 5 years or so. My question is what should I do now? If I read correctly, I have been doing exactly what I shouldn’t have but I am not seeing or reading how I should proceed now. Can I just stop taking them cold-turkey or should I taper off? Any advice would be great.
Steven
Steven, you’ll need to taper off of 5-HTP if you’ve been using it for years. And you definitely cannot use it if you’re going to be using antidepressants.
Hi, I’m taking around 1-1.5gr de L Tyrosine combined with my regular stack (asghawanda,L-theanine,racetams,complex b)
I’m reading a lot your webpage and YouTube channel (is fastastic) but now I want to increase a lot my serotonin and put that in balance, but I feed that my 250gr of tryptophan daily is not enough. I read that you took 5htp because you take a lot l tyrosine, I wonder if you can advice a safe dosage for 5htp or tryptophan for take daily before bed
Martin, depending on your levels you can try 500 – 1,000 mg L-Tryptophan before bed. I use 1,000 mg L-Tryptophan because I use so much Tyrosine and Mucuna.
5-HTP is not a good way to increase serotonin. I only use 25 mg sections of a 100 mg lozenge under my tongue when I feel like I’m on edge from excess dopamine during the day. That calms it down quickly. But it’s a temporary fix.
Hi David!
Serotonin supplements (SS) work to elevate my mood every fast, but it creates tremendous amount of water retention in my body. Is there anything that could be done so that we can boost serotonin but the body doesn’t hold water, specially in the mid-section?
I don’t want to use Diuretic all the time because it causes dizziness and headache. And, I don’t understand why SS makes me less dominant and lethargic in social situation. Can’t we just uplift mood and be vigorous at the same time?
Toka, when you say “serotonin supplements” are you referring to 5-HTP or L-Tryptophan? Because there is a big difference. Most people don’t have problems using L-Tryptophan. But problems with 5-HTP come up all the time.
Hi, quick question. I basically accepted it as dogma from other sources that 5-HTP absolutely should /not/ be taken without EGCG or some green tea in general, the reason being that otherwise it would convert into serotonin in the gut and, besides not reaching the brain, could also damage the heart. Is this true? How necessary might it be to also supplement vitamin B6 with these two?
Thank you
Candide, most of your serotonin is made in your gut and somehow gets to your brain. I think via the vagus nerve but can’t prove it.
Where people get into trouble with 5-HTP is using only 5-HTP with the expectation that it will work as an antidepressant. And it stops working after 4 – 6 weeks. What they don’t realize is that when you boost serotonin too much you depress dopamine. Which in turn causes depression. And a host of other problems.
You also need Vitamins B3, B5, B6, B9 & B12 which are cofactors in the synthesis of serotonin. Not sure where they came up with the idea about EGCG. But green tea does contain L-Theanine which does influence dopamine levels.
And if you’re too depressed possibly from a lack of serotonin you could die of a broken heart I suppose. Maybe they got it from there? 🙂
Hello!
So hopefully you’re able to read this in the right section, I wasn’t sure where to post a new thread.
I’ve ordered a few things and I would like to know if it’s appropriate to mix these all together and I will also let you know my diet usually and also my workouts.
Hopefully you can help me take a look at the actual items
I’m 29 years old I vape so there’s nicotine.
I ordered Vitamins
Animal Pak – The Complete All-in-one Training Pack – Multivitamins for Men
I ordered probiotics
DrFormulas’ Best Probiotics for Women & Men
I ordered 5-HTP
Natrol 5-HTP
I ordered Alpha-GPC
Double Wood Alpha GPC
Alpha-GPC 600mg but i want to take half as well as with 5 HTC 200mg to 100mg
I eat oatmeal peanut butter bananas
Then eggs with avocado and cheese
I usually workout for an hour of weights than go on a 2 mile jog
Protein shake after
Late lunch and dinner can vary from different red meats chicken seafood with varying veggies
I just want to know if it’s safe to these on a daily. I’m more worried about the 5-HTP and my reason for it, is to not be soooo anxious. I might be a little depressed so I thought that can help instead of Lexipro. I read that you need something for the other side and treat the dopamine levels too. But I thought probiotics and my vitamins will take care of that as well as my usually workout routine where I feel good after them.
Thanks so much and I’m looking forward to read more on this site.
Oops forgot about creatine….I take creatine. 6grams a day. I drink plenty of water!
Thanks!!
Jorge, the only thing on your list that I think safe to use and possibly effective for you is Alpha GPC. It will help with learning and memory and does indirectly influence dopamine levels.
The multivitamin is a classic example of what is wrong with the vitamin/mineral market. Half the contents are synthetic and the company included everything but the kitchen sink in that formula. If you take it and something goes wrong you’ll have no idea why. Because it could be a side effect of any of the dozens of ingredients in that formula.
If you are looking for an effective Multi I highly suggest better quality and use the one I’ve been using for the last two years. The Performance Lab NutriGenesis Multi for men which you’ll find here: https://www.performancelab.com/products/nutrigenesis-multi-men
The problem with probiotics is you have no idea what your gut needs. Out of over 12,000 different good bacteria you’re taking a chance that the few that are in that supplement are the correct ones. I think as wiser approach is to feed your exiting microbiome and let it sort things out. You do that with this: https://www.performancelab.com/products/prebiotic
5-HTP is almost never a good idea because it is direct precursor to the synthesis of serotonin. The Natrol 5-HTP supplement uses a 200 mg dose. Which is very high. Especially if serotonin isn’t even your issue.
Anxiety may be caused by any one of the major neurotransmitters in your brain being out of balance, or low. And the only way to know which one is test each one. One at a time. This article will walk you through how to do it: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-anxiety/.
If you want to try something that’s effective for taming anxiety and lifting mild depression you’re better off trying something like Lemon Balm while trying to figure the rest of this out: https://nootropicsexpert.com/lemon-balm/
Hi David,
I am currently experimenting with nootropics for anxiety and recently started to take Lavender oil (Silexan), which seems to be very good.
However, I have added another supplement called Triptozin (L-tryptophan (170 mg), 5-HTP (50 mg), Magnesium (50 mg) and B6 (0.9 mg).
After the first take it makes me extremely anxious and irritable, so I wasn’t able to sleep. About 4 hours later I have taken another supplement for Sleep, which I also though to try before (it’s my first time) containing 70 mg Lemon Balm and 140 mg Californian Poppy.
On the next day, I have triggered several panic attacks, unexplainable severe anxiety, my mind was racing even without thoughts. Five days later, these side effects do continue (probably a slightly lower).
Do you think I might developed Serotonin Syndrome from the combination of both supplements or it’s most probably a side effect, which will subside with time?
I have had similar effect before from another 5-HTP supplement (25-50 mg), but it does subside on the next day.
Peter, I’m almost certain that you’re experiencing the negative effects of 5-HTP. And the reason I do not recommend anyone use 5-HTP. Especially considering that most supplement labels that include 5-HTP claim a dosage that is nothing like what is actually in the capsule.
You may want to stop using anything that affects serotonin and/or melatonin for a few days to let your system settle down. You might be able to counter some of the effects with low dose L-Tyrosine (i.e. 500 mg).
Lesson here is to AVOID anything containing 5-HTP.
Hi David,
Thanks for the reply. I will never ever use something serotonergic again, especially 5-HTP.
Do you think whether these side effects will subside with time or it will lead to more serious lasting consequences?
I have some L-Tyrosine, but I am hyperthyroid and I am worried about it’s effects on thyroid.
Is there something else what can I do to lower the serotonin faster as it’s seems to be the problem?
As far as I see, I am generating a lot adrenaline, which cause me muscle twitching, a lot of anxiety, irritability etc.
Much appreciated about information.
Peter, check my post on social anxiety because I just updated the “serotonin” section: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-social-anxiety/. Last paragraph of that section.
I wouldn’t worry about this to much because your brain has an amazing ability to heal itself. Symptoms should subside over time. I’m severely hypothyroid but use 500 mg L-Tyrosine 3-times per day without any problem. We’re all different so I can’t guarantee that will be your experience. But it works for me.
Hi David,
Thanks again for the answer. It does provide me a bit of a relief.
Regarding the L-tyrosine, I’d like to use it a lot, as I have a very good experience for a short period of time in terms of mood boost with it.
However, I guess if you are hypothyroid is fine (as it will boost thyroid function?), but what about hyperthyroid, which is my case? Will it elevate T3 and T4 on dose like 500 mg? As both of these are on the upper limit?
Peter, honestly there’s no way to know unless you try it. You know what “hyper” symptoms feel like. Try L-Tyrosine and see if you go hyper. Unless for some reason your system goes permanently into hyper-drive. Only you can make this decision if it’s worth it to you to experiment with it.
Humble request for your expertise my friend. I am currently taking l-theanine (150mg)with 5-HTP (100mg) 3 times a day along with coffee. I am taking l-theanine because it hopefully counteracts the dopamine blocking effects of 5-HPT. I have recently come across your article on 5-HPT and it was an eye-opener to say the least!
My questions are…
1) does my l-theanine dosage produce enough dopamine to counteract 5-HTP dopamine depletion. Will these 2 supplements together provide a dopamine-serotonin balance in my brain. I also eat 4 eggs & an avocado every day to help with my L-Tyrosine levels
2) as they are both amino acids – can they neutralise each other when taken together
3) is there any research to suggest that taking l-theanine or 5-HTP subliminally is better than swallowing the capsule.
Many thanks for your time and sharing your knowledge!
Beth, L-Theanine boosts the effectiveness of dopamine that’s already present in your brain. It doesn’t create new dopamine.
5-HTP on the other hand does create new serotonin. And used long enough will depress dopamine. That’s why high dosages of 5-HTP are not a good idea and why it stops working after a few weeks.
The only way to increase dopamine to counter this effect is by supplementing with L-Tyrosine. Eggs are not enough.
And amino acids don’t “neutralize” each other. But amino acids in your food can compete for transporters in your gut with amino acids you are taking as supplements. Which is why it’s better to take some supplements on an empty stomach an hour before you eat anything.
L-Theanine however, is a great way to counter the side effects of caffeine use because it helps balance neurotransmitters affected by caffeine. And it helps suppress cortisol that is raised by using caffeine.
WOW – Thank you David! May I ask how much L-Tyrosine I need to take as a supplement while I am taking this dose of 5-HTP as I will order some today. Also if I supplement with L-Tyrosine will that allow the 5-HPT to continue “working” even after the 3 week mark where 5HPT seems to cease functioning & dopamine depletion usually occur. Also as I already take Magnesium, Vit B’s daily, can I order just straight L-Tyrosine. Again MANY THANKS for your help. PS I am taking 5hpt for irritability, aggression, OCD & impulse control, mood & sleep and I have noticed significant improvements in each and my Bulimia had stopped altogether after 30 years. I have only been taking 5-HTP & l-theanine for a week though but am very impressed with how it is effecting me so far. Your guidance is much appreciated David…
Beth, you can use L-Tyrosine as a single supplement. But dosage entirely depends on how much your system needs. For example, the recommended dosage for L-Tyrosine is 500 mg 2 or 3-times per day. But that dosage could be too much for you. You may only need 250 mg at a time. Only way to know is to experiment.
But don’t take L-Tyrosine too late in the day as it could mess with your sleep.
Great video & article David. Just have a QQ:
Can I take 5-HTP(With CO-Factor b6) along with my ADHD medication (Adderall 20mg )?
Varum, why would you want to? Have you seem my post on ADHD here? https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-adhd-add/
Hi, I have found 5htp greatly improves my anxiety and mood. I have only ever taken it for up to 10 days in low dose due to the fact thst both times I have ended up with a mouth ulcer/sore on my lip.. and the feeling of getting a stomach ulcer. Is this ulcer occurence caused by the 5htp. Would l-tryptophan result in the same. Maybe its a coincidence. Thanks, nic
Nic, its possible. The pathway goes like this: L-Tryptophan > 5-HTP > serotonin > melatonin. You’re likely feeling the benefit of 5-HTP because it’s raising your serotonin levels. Which you can also do with L-Tryptophan. It’s safer even at higher doses and can be used long-term.
Dear David,
for mild depression and anxiety,
I plan to take 25 mg 5 HTP after breakfast;
60 mg L DOPA after breakfast and at 16:00;
500 mg L Tyrosine before breakfast and at 16:00
Note: one week L-DOPA (Mucuna) – one week L – Tyrosine
First question: in your opinion, is this a valid “therapeutic” plan?
Second question: will 5 HTP no longer be beneficial after six weeks?
Third question: if I will have benefits, will I continue hiring for 10 – 20 or more years, can you do it? Or would I “poison” my body?
I’m hoping for a polite answer from you. Yours sincerely. Paolo
Paolo, your stack may help your “mild depression and anxiety” but only if it’s caused by low dopamine. But if it is low dopamine it’s unlikely that 60 mg of L-DOPA from Mucuna Pruriens will do anything for you. 500 mg L-Tyrosine should be much more effective. But be careful dosing it that late in the afternoon. If you find you have problems sleeping then move that dose back to noon.
5-HTP is simply there to keep your dopamine and serotonin levels in balance. Try using it before bed if you find it makes you sleepy in the morning.
Studies show that using 5-HTP as a cure for depression loses it’s efficacy after a few weeks because they forget about dopamine. And simply raising serotonin without addressing dopamine is going to cause problems. So your second question would not be applicable to you if you are supporting dopamine.
And no, you will not poison your body. The only thing you could be doing is supporting the wrong neurotransmitters. But only you can determine that by testing these supplements. If your mild depression and anxiety do not lift then you’ll need to try something else. Come back to this thread if that happens and I’ll make some suggestions.
Hi David, thank you so much for your kind answers.
Excuse me, 60 mg L – Dopa in the morning and 60 mg in the afternoon = 120 mg L dopa per day, is that low?
2) I know that even a mild depression can be caused by serotonin deficiency, so, 5 htp shouldn’t help me?
3) Do you think it would be better to take 50 mg 5-HTP? …….I weigh 75 kg…. 25 mg might be little?
4) How many hours is the half-life of 5-htp ?
Does its effect and increase in serotonin last 3 hours ? 5 hours ? 10 hours?
Or if I take it every day, it has a cumulative effect, and I will be covered 24 hours a day?
4bis) What I am trying to say is: with ssri a subject always has the same amount of serotonin in the brain during 24 hours, with 5-HTP instead? Does serotonin increase for 5 hours and then return to the starting point?
Dear greetings, Paolo
Paolo, if your depression is caused by low serotonin then 5-HTP may help. It is a direct precursor to serotonin and works within 15 minutes depending on your metabolism. The half-life is only a couple of hours. It will not build up in your body. It works better doing 25 or 50 mg doses every 4-5 hours.
But you will need to experiment to find the right dose for you. Start low and see how you feel.
If the only reason you are using L-DOPA is to keep dopamine and serotonin in balance a lower dose may be sufficient. Again the only way to find out is to experiment. The way to determine if it’s high enough is if 5-HTP works for you and then suddenly stops working it likely means you’re out of balance. And need to raise dopamine. Which means increasing your L-DOPA dose.
Hello David,
Is it suitable to use 5-HTP (usual dosage 25/50 mg, 1 time per day, on and off for 2 weeks) alongside with N Acetyl L-Cysteine (500 mg per day)?
I saw that NAC boosts dopamine and if so, will those two balance dopamine/serotonin?
I can’t take L-Tyrosine currently due to high T3 and T4 hormones.
Also, do you know whether it’s harmful to use NAC when have high T3 and T4 (upper limit, not crossing the border, but still need to wait a few months to stabilize)?
I didn’t see issues with it (taking it for 2 weeks), but still I didn’t find information about it.
Thanks for the information you’ve shared on the website.
Dave, NAC does not directly increase dopamine. But it does restore the functionality of dopamine receptors which is helpful for those using stimulants for ADD and for Parkinson’s patients. So it’s not going to help balance dopamine and serotonin.
And NAC does not effect thyroid function or thyroid hormones. I know this from experience because I’m hypothyroid and use high doses of natural desiccated thyroid. And I use 600 mg of NAC 3-times per day.
I highly doubt that 25 or even 50 mg of 5-HTP is going to raise serotonin so much that it’ll mess up neurotransmitter balance.
Thanks for the information. Especially about the thyroid, as I can’t find information about it.
I forgot to ask about zinc and cooper deficiency, while taking NAC. I’ve planned to make a tests about these but its not possible at the moment. Do you think that a dose of 500 mg per day can cause a serious deficiency?
Another thing is about tolerance, I saw that you take 3x 600 mg. Did you make any pauses or take these every day?
Dave, tolerance is not a problem with NAC because your brain needs it daily. Zinc can be depressed from long-term use. So it’s best to make sure you are supplementing with zinc and low dose copper. Something that most adult men should be doing anyway.
Hi David, thanks for your wonderful column.
I am stacking 50mg 5HTP with 500mg L-Tyrosine further to coming off SSRIS (which I hated).
You mention long term 5htp use is not advised, however my herbalist has advised it is perfectly safe at this dose (especially as being accompanied with L-Tyrosine) What are your thoughts?
Also – I ocassionally drink alcohol at the weekend; will this prove to be a problem? Again my herbalist has advised its ok but just need a 2nd opinion
Don, it’s safe to be used long-term but many find it stops being effective after a few weeks. I think primarily because they do not address dopamine and end up throwing serotonin and dopamine out of balance.
Sounds like you’ve got a could handle on dosage and how it feels. Use it as long as it works for you.
Hi David
I bought 5HTP supliment. On the back of bottle it says Grifonia seeds extract 200 MG.
5HTP 25MG each capsule. Does that mean that I am taking only 25MG 5HTP not 200MG. I have contacted the manufacturer but they made me more confused.
Regards
Thanks
Najef, I have not seen the supplement you are talking about. But if the label states that their product contains 25 mg of 5-HTP per capsule I would consider that they know what they’re talking about. And that supplement offers 25 mg 5-HTP per capsule.
Which is a safe dose you should be aiming for. And not 200 mg all at once which is way too much for most people.
Hi David
I have started taking 50mg of 5HTP again and wondered if this is OK to take with 200mg of I-theanine(for dopamine recovery) instead of the other I-tyrosine
How long is this combo safe to take?
Thanks
Don, as long as they work for you with no bad side effects it’s OK. But keep in mind that L-Theanine only helps boost existing dopamine that is already in your brain. It is not a direct precursor like L-Tyrosine.
The only direct way to increase dopamine levels is with a precursor like L-Tyrosine or L-DOPA (Mucuna Pruriens) along with the cofactors to make dopamine.
Hi David,
I really appreciated this article. In the past I had been on SSRIs or SNRIs since I was a kid, and found the side effects to be less than desirable as an adult. I have always had mild to moderate anxiety/depression. Recently, I had come across this 5-HTP supplement from Dr. Emil Nutrition, with stellar reviews, and it contains SAMe, L Tryptophan, and Vitamin B6. I purchased a bottle yesterday, but then came across additional information about throwing your dopamine off balance, so I purchased some L-Tyrosine as well. I haven’t started either yet, but does this combo address both serotonin and dopamine adequately? Or should I be considering some other combination instead? I definitely plan to start slow regardless, but don’t want to throw my body out of whack by overserving one element and not the other! Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
Sarah, L-Tyrosine is a good idea but use it during the day. Not after 4 PM or it will cause insomnia. But you are correct that serotonin and dopamine must be in balance.
I also suggest you read my post on nootropics for depression because it’ll provide a clearer picture of the causes of depression. And maybe give you some other ideas to try. https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-depression/
hi david, thanks for all this information.
I have self diagnosed as having delayed sleep phase syndrome, which as a vegetable farmer has resulted in many periods of bad sleep deprivation. I manage this with light therapy (bright blue in the morning, yellow glasses in the evening), intermittent fasting (eating as early as possible) meditation and something like wim hof breathing (helps me break out of ruminations that keep me awake sometimes).
I recently tried 5 htp, not expecting much. To my surprise taking 250mg of 5htp each evening radically fixed my sleeping problem. i have been falling asleep quicker and waking up with more energy than i have ever known.
I have chickens on my farm, so eat a lot of eggs as well as veg, so i eat 100-300mg of tryptophane, as well as magnisium and b vitamins (leafy greens, etc). I infer that either i dont synthesis 5htp very well or my brain needs more than normal for whatever reason. I have also tried tart cherry and noticed little effect.
After reading your articles and watching your video’s, i realise that i am in danger of dopamine depletion, and after a fortnight of regular use i wonder if i am starting to feel it. I’m experimenting with the minimum effective dose of 5htp, i have ordered GABA, NALT and mind lab pro to see if the GABA can help me reduce my 5htp and if a morning dose of NALT can stave off the dopamine deficiency.
Do you think i am over estimating the amount of tryptophane, magnisium or b vitamins in my diet? would it be worth me trying these supplements to see if i can get a similar effect? Or, do you think that given my ideosyncratic responce, do you think it might be worth me perservering with the 5htp and trying to find a way to balance it with other supplements?
I work long days 365 days a year, and learning new skills and synthesizing new information is critical to my work, so i am interested in anything i can do to support my mental performance.
As an aside, did you know that soil chemistry dramatically affects the nutritional properties of the food grown or raised on a piece of land, because although biological processes can assemble compounds, then cannot create elements. The best farmers balance the micro-nutrient content of their soils to produce the most delicious and nutritious vegetables in a way that is analogous to nutritionists supplementing peoples diets for optimal health.
Jono, I’ve written and have spoken publicly extensively about the problems with soil chemistry and our food supply. If our food contained the same levels of nutrients that it did 50 or 100 years ago we would not need to supplement. And there would be no need for Nootropics Expert.
Long-term daily use of high doses of 5-HTP has consistently been shown to “stop working”. And it’s because serotonin and dopamine are thrown out of balance. Dopamine is depressed and produces all the side effects of dopamine depletion.
You should be able to counter this by using 500 mg L-Tyrosine or NALT twice per day. But you may need to reduce your dose of 5-HTP for this to work.
Hello David,
you prefer L Tryptophan to 5-HTP for long term use. But i’ve read that you use 5 HTP yourself daily. Why do you choose 5-HTP over L Trypthophan?
Bes, I still prefer and use L-Tryptophan daily before bed. But I do use 5-HTP because of the amount of L-Tyrosine and Mucuna I use. Which is much higher than what most people use.
This is kinda’ “do what I say and don’t do what I do” because most can get themselves in real trouble using 5-HTP. Doses are typically and mistakenly too high. And unless it is perfectly balanced with a dopamine precursor will stop working after a few weeks.
Aloha David,
Is it safe to consume Citicoline and 5 HTP together? If so, should I take it seperate or could it be taken together?
Randall, Citicoline is a precursor to the synthesis of acetylcholine and 5-HTP is a precursor to the synthesis of serotonin. Two completely different neurotransmitters. So
because they each have a different mechanism of action taking them together shouldn’t influence how each works.
Thank you David for your prompt information.
Hello Mr Tomen congratulations for your great work here and on Youtube.Do parkinsons disease patients need 5htp in addition to L-dopa treatment?
Yes, you need to keep dopamine and serotonin in balance. Otherwise, L-DOPA will become ineffective eventually if you do not support serotonin. So use either 5-HTP or my preferred method for increasing serotonin – L-Tryptophan. It’s safer and easier to dose.
Hi David, I recently started taking a supplement with 25 mg of5 htp, 200 mg of rhodiola and 200 mg of L-Theanine. It says to take 1 capsule 3x a day but I have decided that 1 is probably enough. I also purchased alpha gpc. Can this be taken together or would they counteract one another?
Thank you
Shira, it can be taken with Alpha GPC. And I think it wise to keep your dosage lower as well.
Hi David, I tried 5-htp and l tyrosine. Their effects is so mild compared to caffeine, are there any nootropics that’s the same or better than caffeine?
Jason, why would you use 5-HTP with L-Tyrosine in the first place? That will put the brakes on any benefit you get from reasonable doses of L-Tyrosine right from the start. Explain please …
Oh, I read somewhere we have to take a ratio of 1:10 50mg 5 HTP and 500 mg L Tyrosine.
Jason, 5-HTP dosage depends on the person. Try that dose and see if it works for you.
I stopped taking L Tyrosine after I don’t feel it’s helping, I have better luck with ALCAR and creatine. I hope they would not build up tolerance like caffeine does.
Jason, you cannot build tolerance to ALCAR or creatine if they are used at regular recommended dosages.
Hi David, i recently graduated rehab for alcohol and benzo addiction. My anxiety has mostly subsided, but i have terrible depression and dont respond well to ssris. My dr prescribed wellbutrin. Would you recommand taking this with 5htp to balance out the dopamine and serotonin ? Thanks
Luke, if you just got out of rehab I highly suggest avoiding nootropics like 5-HTP. Especially if you don’t respond well to SSRIs.
If Wellbutrin works for you it sounds like you have more of a dopamine issue. And I’d do what I could to support dopamine including dopamine D2 & D3 receptors with something like Aniracetam.
You do need to keep dopamine and serotonin in balance. But please use something more forgiving like L-Tryptophan. That will raise serotonin while you sleep, you’ll feel better in the morning and dopamine will be happy.
Thanks David, i could find aracitam for sale anywhere, is it a controlled substance? My dr never heard of it. I was told to avoid anything ‘speedy’ as my cns is still recovering from benzo abuse and when i was cut cold turkey my anxiety was terrible. One last thing, after taking ashwaghnda for 2 weeks, i now have discorolored pigment on both hands. Have you ever heard of a noitropic doingv this? They look lije iodine stains that eont wash off.
Luke, I’ve never heard of this kind of side effect with Ashwagandha. But it sounds like a build up of lipofuscin which is not harmful. Only it doesn’t look so good. You can reduce lipofuscin with DMAE (https://nootropicsexpert.com/dmae/) or Centrophenoxine.
Look for aniracetam
Zaak, you can read my review of Aniracetam here > https://nootropicsexpert.com/aniracetam/. And I’ve included a link to “Hard Rhino” who now go by the name of “HR Supplements” in the “available forms” section of that review. Or you can use my affiliate link here: https://www.hrsupplements.com/aniracetam-1000mg-capsules-120-count/?afmc=NOOTROPICS
Why can you only take 5-HTP for 3-5 weeks?
And say you are supplementing with 5-HTP 100mg, how would this correspond to a L-Tryptophan swap… also 100mg?
Colby, go back please and start reading from this section, “How does 5-HTP work in the Brain?” through to just prior to “How things go bad”. It explains why you cannot use 5-HTP alone and expect long-term benefit.
In its simplest terms, it goes like this: Tryptophan → 5-HTP → serotonin. But it’s everything that happens in between that makes the difference. 100 mg 5-HTP is NOT 100 mg of L-Tryptophan and that section explains in detail why this is.
Okay, just briefed over it the first time around but the studies seem to indicate 5-HTP simply becomes ineffective especially after 3 weeks due to depletion of catecholamines and others. How do you test/know if a neurotransmitter imbalance exists?
To comment on the second portion, I am just curious what an ideal substitution for 100mg 5-HTP would be in terms of L-Tryptophan?
What is your recommendation for a L-Tryptophan and L-Tyrosine stack? 50mg L-Tryptophan and 500L-Tyrosine?
Colby, there is no reliable neurotransmitter test. You’ll see urine tests, blood tests and others. But they cannot tell how much of each neurotransmitter is within their respective neurons. Doesn’t matter how much is in your blood stream or bladder.
Only way to tell is learn to listen to your own body. Learn the symptoms of low and high. And watch for any indication that it’s the way you are feeling.
Best way to raise serotonin is start with 500 mg L-Tryptophan before bed. And 500 mg L-Tyrosine morning and noon. No later than 4 PM.
Hi David,
Thank you very much for being so helpful. I would like to check if I can take together 5-HTP (50 mg), NALT (350 mg) and GPC choline (300 mg). Are the amounts also okay? The 5-HTP I will take at night.
Thanks,
Patricia
Patricia, the dosages are OK but NALT is likely too low. See how it works for you. And NALT should not be taken after 4 PM or it may cause insomnia.
After we spoke – I worked on taking the stack suggested. I’m back to researching.
Here it’s mentioned that SE or DE can be out of balance.
agitation, aggressiveness, anxiety, decision-making, irritability, insomnia.
That reads me
How does one know which is off? And you mention not using 5-HTP but if stacked properly is it ok?
Robert, dopamine and serotonin must be in balance. And the easiest and safest way to boost each one is; L-Tyrosine for dopamine; and L-Tryptophan for serotonin.
5-HTP is not preferred because you cannot use it for more than 4 or 5 weeks. And it’s very difficult to find the right dosage. Unless you are very experienced using nootropics and especially messing with neurotransmitter levels it’s best to stay away from things like 5-HTP.
David, I’ve been taking quercetin at 500mg in the morning for several weeks now. I have noted a significant mood boost that persists for 2-3 hours afterwards. This seems to be explained by some information I’ve found that suggests quercetin can inhibit MAO. I’m wondering then if quercetin 500mg AM would be safe to take with 5-HTP 100mg at bedtime for sleep?
Thanks very much!
Mark, normally I’d say it should be safe when spread apart like that. But 100 mg 5-HTP might be pushing it. Serotonin Syndrome scares me so I’m not going to encourage you to try 5-HTP when using a MAOI .
David, thanks very much for the input. I’m a Licensed Professional Counselor and have worked in the behavioral health field for 20+ years and the prospect of serotonin syndrome alarms me as well. I’ve seen people discontinue meds and then later take bolus doses to treat withdrawal sxs symptoms and suffer serious fallout (though not death thankfully).
Would you advise L-trytophan at bedtime as an alternative and could that be staked with perhaps GABA and glycine?
Mark, L-Tryptophan is a safer alternative I think because it’s a longer path to serotonin synthesis. And yes to the latter two as well.
I was planning on stacking 5-HTP with Phenyl-GABA, Taurine, Tri-Methyl-Glycine (TMG) L-Tyrosine, and L-Theanine. I took this combination from a product with good reviews.
Do you think this combination would work to keep the serotonin in balance?
Karen, it depends on how much 5-HTP they used in their stack and how much L-Tyrosine. The problem with these types of stacks is there’s no way to tell if this combination and dosages will work for you. Only way to find out is try it and see how it makes you feel.
Is there not an adaptogen (bacopa comes to mind) which promotes both serotonin AND dopamine hence obliterating the need to take 2 different amino acids to balance the two neurotransmitters?
Or would taking such an adaptogen not be as strong as an effect as the aminos?
Maria, adaptogens can take up to 3 – 4 weeks to work and none of them are direct precursors to serotonin or dopamine. They can’t be. Only L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP can make serotonin. And only L-Tyrosine or L-DOPA can make dopamine.
Hello, excellent article and video. I have however two questions. As you said the fact that 5htp supplementation tends to diminish catecholamines (such as dopamine and norepinephrine) by overusing the enzymes that catalyze its synthesis and thus, parallel administration of other neurotransmitter precursors is advised. Is this case valid also during supplementation of pure Tryptophan or this issue affects only immediate precursors ? If the case is same, what ratio of dose would you recommend of e.g. L-dopa/L-tyrosine – Tryptophan to eradicate the unbalanced competitive inhibition that will be resulted.
Jo, it seems to be more a problem with using 5-HTP because it’s a direct precursor to serotonin. And a little goes a long way. It’s way to easy to use more than you should. Thus depressing dopamine.
L-Tryptophan in my experience, and that of others, seems to be more ‘forgiving’. You can use 500 mg L-Tryptophan before bed and feel great the next day.
But each person’s physiology is unique. You may find you’ll feel better if you used 500 mg L-Tyrosine the next morning. And the person next to you doesn’t need to. It really is a balancing act and the only way to find out is experiment.
Hi, David,
Monday I will start taking 50 mg 5 HTP and 60 mg L-Dopa
I decided to take them for my dysthymia (and because ssri and snri were not effective).
I want to ask you: how long (about) does it take for 5 HTP and L-Dopa to start giving benefits for dysthymia (mild, but perennial, depression)?
A week?
Two?
Three weeks?
A month?
Dear greetings
Francesco, if it’s going to work you should feel positive effects after the first or second dose.
Also is it safe to use racetams with 5 htp and tyrosine I tried one stack 700 mg oxiracetam 700 mg aniracetam 200 mg alcar and .015 mg noopept sublingual that worked quite well I was curious if addingn5 htp and or tyrosine would benefit the stack or not work
David, it depends on if you are trying to solve a problem. Targeting all neurotransmitters would be counter-productive because you wouldn’t be able to identify the cause of your issue.
And I’d recommend starting with only one racetam at at time and making sure you dosed it correctly including with a choline supplement.
Hello david I will start off by saying your sight is incredible the mount of information about nootropics packed into one site is amazing. I have recently been experimenting with all sorts of nootropics I was curious first of all should I target all transmitters in the same day or how should I approach each neuron transmitter
Hello David,
I want to start taking tryptophan and tyrosine together but I’m wondering if adding l-dopa to them would be even better?
Thank you
Andreas, L-Tyrosine should be taken during the day and L-Tryptophan before bed. Too much dopamine in the evening will prevent you from sleeping and too much serotonin during the day will make you sleepy.
Adding L-DOPA to this is only a good idea if your brain needs the extra dopamine.
Hi, David,
I’m sorry, if I understand correctly:
1) ssri does not increase serotonin,?
With ssri, serotonin is not eliminated, but its increase is zero?
2) With 400 mg griffonia = 50 mg of 5 htp, instead, there is an increase in serotonin?
3) ssri, must they be hired continuously, even 5 htp?
Or 5 htp, must be taken 3 weeks, and then, do a week of suspension?
So: 3 weeks yes, 2 weeks no? Even for 10 – 20 – 30 years?
ps: I intend to take 400 mg griffonia = 50 mg 5 Htp after dinner and 250 mg Mucuna Pruriens 15% L – Dopa = 37.5 mg before breakfast (5 days a week)
Hi, thank you very much. Francesco (Italy)
Francesco, Selective Serotonin Uptake Inhibitors (SSRI) block the uptake of serotonin usually in the synapse. Which in theory at least forces more serotonin to be available in the brain. SSRIs DO NOT increase serotonin. You can only increase serotonin with a precursor such as L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP.
I do not understand your #3. But your P.S. does work. But you may need to increase the amount of Mucuna to keep dopamine in balance with serotonin.
Hi David, thank you very much for your reply and advice.
Look at point 3: I know that ssr must be taken every day.
5 htp should be taken every day?
Or 5 htp assumes three weeks yes and a week does not?
5 HTP should be cycled? or not ?
About L-Dopa, one capsule contains 15% of L-3,4-dihydroxyphenylalanine and 250 mg of Mucuna Pruriens seed extract !!!
Is it little?
Would it be better to take 2 or 3 capsules?
Many thanks and best regards. Francesco
Francesco, are you currently using a SSRI? Because if you are then using 5-HTP is far too dangerous without professional supervision. And in this case it would be minute-by-minute supervision.
Same thing with Mucuna but possibly to a lesser extent and depending on what the SSRI is.
Hi David, in the past I have used different ssri, but without benefits. Plus I had sexual problems and low libido.
Now I have done a research and I have seen that 5 htp and l-dopa can give me benefits (which I didn’t have with ssri) without sexual side effects.
Mucuna Pruriens Haya Labs Velvet bean extract 60 mg (min. 98% L-Dopa)
L-Dopa I will take 60 mg Wednesday – Friday – Sunday
120 mg Thursday and Saturday
Monday Tuesday break
Does 5 htp have to be cycled (series)? Or not?
Should I take it for three weeks and then take a break (one week)? Or not?
……… or 5htp does not need to take breaks?
Thanks
Francesco, in my humble opinion neither nootropic needs to be cycled. As long as you keep dopamine and serotonin in balance. If one is forced too high it depresses the other. But be very careful with 5-HTP. Because a little goes a long way.
I personally get 100 mg 5-HTP lozenges and use a pill splitter to cut them into quarters. Then put 25 mg of 5-HTP under my tongue as needed. Usually 2 or 3 times per day.
Hi David,
Thanks for all of the advice and experience you bring to the comments on this page!
I’ve recently come off Cymbalta which is an SNRI and on reading it somewhere I’ve been managing my terrible discontinuation syndrome using a daily ‘stack’ of 50mg 5-HTP and 500mg L-tyrosine. It has really helped – although i’ve felt wired and a little ‘speedy’ at times.
Would you recommend I slowly tail off my daily dosage at some point rather than taking 5-HTP and L-tyrosine for an indefinite period?
Chris, your symptoms are more likely caused by withdrawal from Cymbalta than from the low doses of 5-HTP and L-Tyrosine you are using.
Try reducing the nootropic dosage in half and see if that helps. If not, then Cymbalta withdrawal is the likely culprit.
Hi David,
I have suffered from occasional low mood and anxiety for a while after a stressful time. I have had really good results from a low, 250g dose of St John’s Wort. My sleep duration and quality could be better though, the SJW improves things but not totally. Is there anything that can be safely stacked with SJW to improve sleep quality?
thanks,
Kevin, the ingredients in this stack should work with St. John’s wort: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-sleep-supplements-to-buy-in-2019/
How long does 5HTP stay in your system…?
I have been taking 100mg 5htp with melatonin and GABA 750mg for some really bad insomnia i have been experiencing. I have done this for one week and it is helping me sleep but i want to switch to Essential amino acids to start naturally helping myself sleep. How long do i have to wait after taking 5htp can i start taking tryptophan as part of an essential amnio acid supplement.
Ben, I’d switch from 5-HTP to L-Tryptophan right away. No need to wait.
Hi David
is 5-htp,L-tyrosine and ashwaganda safe together?
thanx
Peter, yes you can stack these 3 together as long as you stay within recommended dosages for each.
Hi. I am using now Lexapro and I decide I want to go natural way… I am using lexapro 10mg and when I stop is it 5HTP 50 mg too low, should I go with 100mg? Is 100mg 5HTP with 500mg L-Tyrosine ok or should I go with 50mg:500mg ratio? Thanks
Or maybe 100mg:1000mg ratio? 🙂 Thanks
Or maybe 100mg:1000mg ratio is better?
Filip, there’s no way to tell unless you try different dosages. But always, always start with the lowest recommended dose for each nootropic. For example, try 500 mg L-Tyrosine and 25 or 50 mg 5-HTP. L-Tyrosine is much more ‘forgiving’ than 5-HTP.
You many find that you need twice as much 5-HTP with that dosage of L-Tyrosine but the only way to find out is experimenting. Everyone is ‘wired’ differently and responds uniquely to these nootropic supplements.
But please DO NOT use 5-HTP while using Lexapro because it is far to dangerous.
Thank you. Can I take 5HTP immediately when I stop lexapro or I need to wait few days?
Filip, I’d give it a week to be safe and then start with a low dose.
Hi. I have not seen this situation, but maybe I missed it.
I have taken Paxil and Trazodone forever. 2 1/2 years ago surgeons removed my colon and appendix. Each day it seemed the P&T was working less and less. Without knowing where Vits and Mins and Nutrients are absorbed, I tried taking a lot of different Vits and some Mins. Then I tried some sublinguals (Melatonin, different brands), but did not work. I can never go to sleep before 3 a.m. I seem to be getting worse every day.
Kay, your question is way beyond my area of expertise. Your digestive system is critical for well … digesting food and supplements so they make their way into your system. For example, 5-HTP is used the synthesize serotonin. And where does serotonin get manufactured? In your gut.
I suggest finding a naturopath or integrative physician who can walk your through this. And help you find a solution.
Hi David, congratulations on your article. I am writing to you because I believe I have irreversibly ruined my body. My neurologist prescribed 5-htp to help me with paroxetine weaning. The problem is that I took 200mg for 9 days along with very low doses of Paroxetine and I started having erectile dysfunction. I immediately stopped both drugs, but the problem persists after eight months. To date I have extreme muscle weakness (CFS), difficulty in concentration, very low libido and erectile dysfunction. I think I damaged my receptors. In your opinion, can I do something to help them recover?
Emanuele, researchers are still trying to figure out how the discontinuation of SSRI’s results in sexual dysfunction of all sorts including ED. But it doesn’t appear to be directly related to receptor insensitivity or damage.
Recent studies show a disruption on sodium currents and ion channels. Which is really disturbing because we’re talking about below the cell surface. It’s a long, scary read but here is the report: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6004900/
No one has figured out a solution to this. With some really smart people working on it. The best I can offer is to try something like this: https://www.performancelab.com/supplements/t-booster/.
I realize it’s not the answer you are looking for but until someone figures this out the best you can do is experiment with different nootropics and supplements. And hope you find something that works. If it is a problem with ion channels, search Nootropics Expert and see if you can find a nootropic that supports ion channel function.
Thank you so much for your answer. I sincerely hope to be able to come back to life. I take this opportunity to remind everyone to never take 5-HTP together with a serotonergic antidepressant. I’ve ruined my life forever. I’m only 25 years old.
i just watched this video last night it mentions if you want to boost your serotonin levels with 5-htp it wont work on its own because you will deplete the dopamine levels in the brain . but what if it needs to be balanced would you take them both at the same time . if a person has high levels of sexual addiction in their brain is that caused by too much dopamine where serotonin can control sexual behaviour and climax control . ive got got told somewhere they told me 5-htp serotonin will block dopamine if its over 800 mg if taking 50-150 mg it won’t
Cihan, you are on the right track here. Lower doses of 5-HTP do not have as severe of a depressing effect as higher doses on dopamine. But everyone’s brain and system is different and has different tolerances. Which means you need to find the right dosage for you.
i am not sure if its sure but i got told with 5htp you can’t take it with any other anti anxiety medicines . so if you take l-dopa or l-tyrosine with 5htp will it be harmful to the body
Cihan, 5-HTP is used for the synthesis of serotonin which goes on to make melatonin. And cannot be combined with SSRIs because of the danger of boosting serotonin to much. Which can result in serotonin syndrome.
L-Tyrosine is used to synthesize L-DOPA which is used to make dopamine.
Serotonin and dopamine must be in balance in your system. So you can take L-Tyrosine or Mucuna and 5-HTP at the same time. But dosages vary from person to person. This takes experimenting until you find the right dosage of each for you. Based on recommended dosages in each individual review here on Nootropics Expert.
Too much of any nootropic or the incorrect balance of supplements can be harmful to your body.
Hi there;
You say split 100mg 5htp to 50 mg but how can i do it? Its mixed.
Clearly if 5-HTP is included in a capsule of tablet with other ingredients you can’t split it. I get 100 mg 5-HTP lozenges from Natrol which are easily cut up with a pill splitter.
Hi David,
I use 50mg 5-htp with 500mg L-tyrosine in 1:10
is it safe with 1200mg piracetam?
Peter, there is no contraindication between the three nootropics that I’m aware of. Just make sure you follow the dosage recommendations for Piracetam. Including using a good choline source like Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline.
Hi,
Thanks for all the info you put out there. This is all incredibly complex and individualised, isn’t it? With a requirement to experiment and tweak, could all be very expensive. I’ve just completely weaned off SSRI, sertraline (approx. 7yrs use), and it worked very well for me. As I’ve weaned, I’ve noticed a slow, sporadic reintroduction of feelings of anger and depression, so I’ve pondered using 5htp, sporadically. I understand the importance of balancing dopamine etc, so I’m wondering if I try weekly, one-dose of 5htp for a few weeks along with weekly, one-dose of l-tyrosine, to help me re-adjust after long SSRI use, and hopefully after a few weeks of this, won’t require anything at all, as I eat a fairly good, nutrient-dense diet, imo… what do you think?
Katy, I suggest you do a little research first and find out the exact mechanism of action of sertraline in your brain. Wikipedia is good for that kind of thing.
Then find nootropics that will ‘mimic’ or work similar to the prescription med. You are correct in making sure you keep dopamine and serotonin in balance. Using 5-HTP can easily throw that balance off.
I think you’ll find that daily dosing is much better than weekly. And often it will take two or three doses per day to get to where you want to be.
To quell the sporadic anger I suggest trying Lithium Orotate:
https://nootropicsexpert.com/lithium-orotate/
See this post on depression for some other ideas on what you could try: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-depression/
Hi. Please read this if you can. Some time ago I bought a bottle of 5-htp supplements of 100mg for sleeping. I used it for some days and then stop talking it. Some days ago I had some trouble sleeping and I remembered I had those pills in my drawer. I was perfectly OK with mood, absolutely happy about life. I wasn’t with low serotonine or something like that. I took 1 pill with an empty stomach and after 30 minutes I became tired and experience a lot of anxiety. Then I stopped being tired and I became very paranoic, I had a little brain shiver too, strange leg/arms spasms. My right leg started to feel like “uncomfortable”. I ended up sleeping and when I woke up I had the same uncomfortable feeling in my right leg. It’s almost 5 days since the 5-htp pill ingestion and I’m still with this thing in my leg. I think its Restless leg syndrome. I Can’t sleep with this, im going insane. It’s really the worst thing that happened to me in my life. It’s giving me anxiety too.
I investigated a lot and found that restless leg syndrome is mostly associated with dopamine depletion. Could 5htp unbalanced my dopamine/serotonine ending up in restless leg syndrome? Im really scared thinking this won’t go away. Here I found that 5htp taken alone could deplete dopamine.
Dopamine depletion = cause of restless leg syndrome.
Now my question. Is this reversable? Can i reduce my serotonine and increase my dopamine with l-tyrosine? Thanks!
Jorge, you are correct. Excess serotonin can depress dopamine. And vice versa. 100 mg of 5-HTP is too much for most people which is the reason I’m cautious about recommending it.
You can try a lower recommended dose of L-Tyrosine or NALT and see if that helps alleviate your issues. See dosage recommendations here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/tyrosine/ or here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/n-acetyl-l-tyrosine/
Hello David,
Is serotonin syndrome correlated with dopamine defficiency?
In other words, is disbalance of serotonin and dopamine levels in the body what causes SS or is it purely the effect of too much serotonin?
Thanks,
Aleksandar
Aleksandar, Serotonin Syndrome is caused by excess serotonin. And too much serotonin will suppress dopamine levels.
From previous comment, I use 5htp to suppress appetite, until i eat lunch, I also take Alcarnitine to help with fat burning.
Jayp, you can use 5-HTP at the same time as dosing with Tyrosine. It helps balance dopamine and serotonin.
You mention sulfur amino acid to stack with 5htp, when should you take it if you are stacking with Tyrosine, because i take all 4 in the morning with no breakfast. Then eat a late lunch. I do this as part of my lowering insulin. I know this works as i have tested labs and insulin lowered to 6. There is pleny of literature on lowering blood glucose through interval fasting.
I’m trying to inhibit melatonin inhibition caused by light. Situation is that I go to meeting every Monday evening flooded with bright lights. Every Monday night I can’t sleep. I’ve tried blue light blocking glasses with very limited results. Will 5-HTP sustained release form taken in low dosage help me sleep after being exposed to bright light?
Jim, you are better off using supplements shown to act as a natural blue light filter. Please check out my review of this Vision supplement here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/performance-lab-vision-review/
Hi David,
Thanks for this informative article. It has opened my eyes about the pros/cons of 5HTP. Taking into account the risks that you have highlighted and your dosage recommendations for 5HTP, I would like to trial the stack that you have recommended using 5HTP with L-Tyrosine and Taurine (plus B Vitamins).
Using this stack, what would be your dosage recommendations for L-Tyrosine and Taurine, if I am taking 150mg – 300mg of 5HTP per day? I will be tracking potential side affects daily.
Thanks in advance,
Mark
Mark, follow the dosage recommendations in the reviews for L-Tyrosine and Taurine. Your 5-HTP dose will likely work better at the lower end. Try 100 – 150 mg and see how that feels. Possibly split in two or three smaller doses during the day.
Hi david,
Is it okay to take aniracetam and 5 htp together? I’m taking L tyrosine and and 5 htp at the moment. Can you recomment me a safe ratio for l tyrosine and 5 htp? and also is it okay to include aniracetam in my stack? I see your videos on youtube and know that SSRIS and 5htp can be fatal. SSRIS are considered anti depressants, and aniracetam is considered a supplement for SSRIS and in some places it’s called an anti-depressant. So is it okay for to add aniracetam in my stack.
Zeshan, you can use Aniracetam in your stack but you need to add either Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline too. Please check the dosage notes.
There is no ‘safe ratio’ for tyrosine and 5-HTP. You know that one raises dopamine and the other serotonin. These two neurotransmitters must be in balance. But it’s different for everybody.
For example, I personally use NALT 800 mg 3-times per day. But only use about 100 mg 5-HTP split into 4 doses of 25 mg each throughout the day depending on how I’m feeling. This dosage may be very different to you.
Hi David
I stumbled on to your Youtube video about 5HTP after hearing about 5HTP as a post-party-blues cure. From my very basic knowledge of the human brain – I extrapolated that it could have long term effects as a prescription-less cure for depression and anxiety.
There is a history of depression in my family – My dad is currently on anti-depressants and I am experiencing similar symptoms to his but I don’t currently have access to a mental health professional.
My question is: Would you recommend any other supplement or medication that doesn’t require a prescription from a doctor to help manage my social anxiety and depression? My current plan is to take 100mg of 5HTP coupled with a Vit B rich multivitamin and 350mg of NALT with breakfast every morning. I also have a CBD vape which helps to ease the symptoms but it’s not strong enough on its own.
I thank you for your help in advance
Kind Regards
Cameron
Cameron, it may work. But depression and anxiety is more complex than the pharmaceutical companies would have you believe. Because they haven’t figured it out yet either.
One of the reasons is because the cause can vary widely from person to person. See my post on depression here > https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-depression/
The dosages you are suggesting are low enough that you should stay out of trouble. You need to be particularly careful with 5-HTP because it is a direct precursor to serotonin. And if you don’t have a serotonin issue …
Hello David,
I really appreciate your knowledge about notropic, following you for long time (from Bosnia).
Have a questions for you…
In a past for few times I had problem with tyroid gland TSH, hyperthyroidism. But everything was OK for last 2-3 years.
Before 15-20 days I start to use some notropic components, rhodiola rosea, vinpocetine, Alpha-GPC, Noopept, Ginko, Huperzine-A and before few days I add 5-HTP to my stack.
I start to have all symptom hyperthyrodism again (nervousness, headache, heart beat, neck pain).
So my question is, do you think this is because 5-HPT, high serotonin cause hyperthyroidism or something else from my stack ?
What to do now, stop with everything or kick out 5-HPT
Also, what do you suggest to take for slow TSH without medical.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks.
Sounds like 5-HTP could be the culprit here. 5-HTP is an extremely potent nootropic because it is a direct precursor to the synthesis of serotonin. It’s very easy to use too much 5-HTP which will increase serotonin and in turn suppress dopamine.
Instead of 5-HTP, you may want to try something gentler like L-Tryptophan. But take it about 90 minutes before you go to sleep.
And consider gently boosting dopamine as well with some L-Tyrosine but earlier in the day.
Thanks.
I will kick out 5-HtP.
So what about to take Iodine in my case ?
Do I need to kick out anything else from stack? Noopept ?
Also .. I already order SAM-e, lithium and sulbutiamine..now afraid to take anything without your advice ..
Thanks David
The rest of your stack looks safe as long as you follow the dosage recommendations included in each review for these nootropics. I think most need to supplement with iodine because most of us are deficient. But dosing iodine is more difficult because we have individual needs. I find that personally, the 150 mcg of iodine included in my multivitamin supplement is adequate.
Hello David. Thank you for a wonderful article. I’m Natalia and have been experiencing depletion of my dopamine and serotonin levels because of the 2 medications I’m taking at the moment. I’m on a quitting cut down program right now and would like to substitute with substances to balance my dopamine and serotonin back to normal. I’ve done a lot of research and would like to try L-Tyrosine and 5-HTP together in the morning 500mg:50mg, and what you have suggested for sleep in the evening. Would the morning combination be ok for me for a start? Will I have any side effects such as lethargy from 5-HTP or will they balance each other out? Thank you very much in advance.
Natalia, your intended stack of L-Tyrosine and 5-HTP is a good starting point. The doses are low enough that they should not cause side effects. While keeping dopamine and serotonin in balance which is key.
Six years ago I experienced a severe depression following prolonged stress. This precipitated debilitating insomnia which, despite every non-pharmaceutical intervention, I have been unable to resolve. Prior to this time I enjoyed good sleep and am currently otherwise physically healthy and am not under any major stress.
.
Recent cortisol testing revealed that my cortisol is slightly elevated at night and my melatonin level is low.
For the past month, I have been trialling doses of 5htp, with some improvement – 50 mg morning and afternoon and 200mg at night, along with 1g GABA, 3 mg time release melatonin and 2 Seriphos.
B vitamins are too stimulating for me at any time of the day but I have a good diet.
However, while the above supplements give me a 3-5 hour initial block of sleep, I am still waking in the very early hours (b/n 1- 3 a.m.) and unable to get back to sleep no matter what I do or take then. I am reluctant to increase bedtime doses without supervision.
I have also briefly tried tryptophan (2 x 500g at bedtime) along with the other listed supplements, with similar results – good first block of sleep but early waking and side effects of dry mouth and constipation which has inclined me to favour 5htp.
However, because you prefer tryptophan for sleep and experimenting without guidance risks a worse outcome. I would like your opinion on dosage and timing.
Do you think a larger than 1g dose of tryptophan at bedtime or an additional daytime dose would help me sleep longer than 4-5 hours at night? Any other thoughts would be most welcome. Thank You
Kate, I understand what you are going through because I have as well. Last night I woke up once and fell back in a deep sleep until my normal 5 AM. And this is what I used:
Performance Lab Sleep: https://nootropicsexpert.com/performance-lab-sleep-review/
Magnesium chelate – 400 mg
L-Tryptophan – 500 mg
25 mg sublingual 5-HTP
4 oz of tart cherry juice
1 tablespoon of raw honey
My Performance Lab Sleep review has a link to another post I did on sleep. Which has links to the individual nootropics and how they work.
All was taken about 90 minutes before I went to bed. The raw honey was right before bed and is used to prevent a sugar crash in the middle of the night.
Tart cherry is a natural source of melatonin. I’ve tried synthetic melatonin and it didn’t worked out so well. My mood the next day was awful.
Magnesium will help get rid of your constipation and is a wonderful sleep aid.
The two nights prior I forgot to take Performance Lab Sleep. Both nights I woke in the middle of the night and couldn’t get back to sleep. I don’t know what it is about that combo. You may want to try it along with the rest of the stack here.
David,
I read by Sam-e on WebMD: https://www.webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingredientmono-786/same
“SAMe increases a brain chemical called serotonin. Some medications for depression also increase the brain chemical serotonin. Taking SAMe along with these medications for depression might increase serotonin too much and cause serious side effects including heart problems, shivering, and anxiety. Do not take SAMe if you are taking medications for depression.
(MAOIs) interacts with SAMe “
About the same I read here of 5HTP should not be taken with MAOIs.
What is the effect then if SAM-e and 5HTP are taken both on the same day (or with a small time interval)?
Wim, the effects depends on how your body responds to SAM-e and 5-HTP. And the amount of 5-HTP you use. If you are not using any other medications and try SAM-e and 25 – 50 mg of 5-HTP you should be OK and get good results. And the doses are low enough that if you have a negative reaction it shouldn’t be severe.
Hi David, I have another question thatI haven’t found any article talking about it clearly. Here’s the question: I know daylight is crucial for serotonin’s production. Is taking serotonin procursors from food or supplements will produce serotonin even you don’t get outside the entire day or daylight is a must? Thank you
Michel, nothing is a “must” but it helps to get outside and some sun whenever you can. Your body craves Vitamin D which is needed to produce all of these neurotransmitters and other hormones. See my blog post on Best Nootropics for Sleep to learn more about how your body ends up in bed every night. https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-sleep/. The recent review on caffeine also helps to understand this process. https://nootropicsexpert.com/caffeine/
Thank you for the links. Yeah I take 2000 IU of vit D3 everyday and reduce it to 1000 IU in Summer time, because here where I live is cloudy most of the days between October to April.
David, I’ve taking a look at your link. To be honest I have a good idea about the biological clock and the effect of daylight on melatonin which brings around 9pm and stops around 7am… I have been interested about the well being since 2005, nutrition, diets, general and mental health, sport nutrition, ayurveda, Chinese medicine, cooking… The problem in many online articles they don’t precise the information, except some repeted health and medicine instituts. I just want to add one thing here that many people don’t know about it. Caffeine may slow or interact with foods and supplements absobtion. When I want to take a cup of tea or coffee I wait at least 5 hrs after taking my supps or herbs. Or I drink my caffeine then I wait 1hr to take my supps… Caffeine passes the small intestine more quiekly. Thanks again
I just want to add that more than 50 mg a day of 5 htp may cause insomnia. Taking Rhodiola Roses in the evening can cause insomnia as well.
Thanks a lot for that very valuable information, I just got a bottle of NALT 300 MG, for best results should I take it 3 x a day with my 5HTP and nootropics stacks? I don’t want to overdo it and get brain fog.
I already take a High quality fish oil and CDP Choline.
Justin, try 300 mg of NALT and see how you feel. You may need to double that dose.
Hi David,
I enjoyed your informative video on 5-HTP, yet this has got to be one of the more complex supplements to understand ( AS far as what to take/ not take with it )
I just wanted to clarify a few things on this product as I just started to take 5-HTP
I am working as well as attending school on top of living in a very high-stress city ( New York )
I have always had bad insomnia and can generally feel stress often
My DR had me on an SSRI long story short several months passed and while you sleep better the side effects are nasty so I weened myself off and insomnia returned The main reason I wanted to try 5HTP is for insomnia as well as mood improvement and an appetite suppressant ( I have read )
I also take a variety of supplements and nootropics ( I don’t drink if that comes in to play )
As you mention it’s important to stack it with certain supplements I wanted to be clear I am doing it right, The product I have is enhanced with vitamin b6/ 50 MG of 5htp to 10 MG of B-6 But I take a separate B-complex vitamin every day as well.
The Neuroscience is very difficult to understand and my concern was you advise against it without stacking it with the right supplements like l- dopamine precursors Therefore I want to be clear on what I must take with it unless I already am.
Is l- tyrosine a MUST or is there something else, as I just started this product I take one 50 MG pill 3 x per day.
Also important to not I don’t have depression or any illness.
For my evening class yesterday I was very tired and took 2 5-HTP with Rhodiola Rosea with 2 l theanine serene which I take every day,
Generally Here are some things I take on a daily basis L-theanine ( serene) It contains L- theanine, gabba, taurin magnesium ( chelate)and some other stuff
cat’s claw
gotu kola
Fish oil
CLA
ALCAR and L-carnitine
ashwagandha
milk thistle ( traded this from dandelion root recently )
b-complex
D3- K2 combination
A quality protein powder 4-5 times a day with BCAA – protein has l-tyrosine in it, is this sufficient?
Ginko Biloba
As well as CDP choline
Koran ginseng ( as a tea every morning )
Phenibut ( It works well yet I just started to take this and I have read a tolerance builds up quickly )
Melatonin ( every night but not very effective)
I tried kava yet I felt nothing on it.
Racetams ( it varies I do not take them every day)
I was considering if I could benefit from bacopa after your recommendation on that product but I tried L-dopa and it did nothing.
I apologize for the long message, I just wanted to be more clear on what to take with 5-HTP and how much and any other supplement for sleep other than what I mentioned
Justin, please study this post I wrote on sleep here > https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-sleep/. I personally use 400 mg magnesium chelated (Doctor’s Best), 500 mg L-Tryptophan, approx. 6 ounces of tart cherry juice (pure from concentrate, NOT a juice blend), and about 25 mg 5-HTP (sublingually). And this stack works wonders for sleep.
Be very cautious with 5-HTP because it a direct precursor to serotonin. Follow dosage instructions closely so you stay out of trouble with this potent nootropic. https://nootropicsexpert.com/5-htp/
Phenibut can be dangerous as well so follow the dosage instructions in the main review > https://nootropicsexpert.com/phenibut/
I’ve personally found melatonin to not be worth the effort. It can really mess with your mood. Very small doses can be OK for some people. I’m talking 0.5 mg types of dosages. Tart cherry juice is safer and provides melatonin (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133468/).
When you are using any of the racetams make sure you follow dosage recommendations including using a choline supplement like Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline.
And you must keep a balance between serotonin and dopamine. You can use L-Tyrosine to boost dopamine. Some find that NALT or Mucuna Pruriens work better. NALT is more bioavailable. And Mucuna is L-DOPA which is a direct precursor to dopamine.
Hi David, Thanks for your answer above. Actually, I take L-tryptophan supplement once a week and another week I take Mucuna pruriens, I leave one week gap between them. Because I have always thought not to work on Serotonin and Dopamine at same time (same day). I have heard that Dopamine needs low sugar and Serotonin needs high sugar.
So, can I take L-tryptophan and Mucuna the same day then?
Thanks a lot
Michel, I use L-tryptophan and Mucuna Pruriens on the same day with no problem. But Mucuna before noon and L-Tryptophan before bed.
Thank you indeed
Hi David,
Thank you for all those valuable information in your website. I have two question here please.
– Do you think L-tryptophan supplement requires stacking it with a dopamine precursor like L-Tyrosine or L-DOPA as well? if yes is it 50/50?
– Another question, what do you think about those anxiety supplements that contain 5-HTP among other herbs like Ashwagandha, Lemon balm…without any Dopamine precursors content, in which work very well and after few weeks people have totally recovered from their anxiety symtoms without any side effects?
Thank you
Michel, it is really up to the individual what is needed. Certainly, dopamine and serotonin need to be in balance. But my experience is that it takes trial and error over time to find out exactly what is needed. And what works best. And depending on your age and genetic makeup you may find L-Tyrosine works better than L-DOPA. Try L-Tryptophan with L-Tyrosine and see how you feel.
Your second question about 5-HTP is yes, it’ll work for awhile. But not long term because 5-HTP is so potent that long-term use will throw everything out of whack. And you’ll stop experiencing the benefit. That’s been my experience. And what researchers have found during clinical trials.
Other boosters of serotonin and GABA are much safer to use especially long-term than 5-HTP.
Hi david i take 8mg of buprenorphine a day my question is am i ok to take tryptophan or 5htp with the buprenorphine?
Many thanks
Louis, buprenorphine affects opiate receptors. And tryptophan and 5-HTP affect serotonin receptors. Two completely different neurotransmitters. Their pathways may affect each other in some manner. But the science is not clear how. So there shouldn’t be an interaction. But I am not qualified to provide advise on whether you should take the two together. Only a licensed health practitioner can offer that advice.