If you feel inadequate, embarrassed, inferior or humiliated. And it prevents you from going out, meeting new people, or generally messes with your quality of life – nootropics can help.
Social anxiety is form of anxiety. And affects at least 13% of people living in the U.S.[i] While the numbers aren’t available, I’m confident this is a world-wide problem.
You are dealing with social anxiety if you do your best to avoid going into any situation where you feel you may be negatively judged or evaluated. Back in the day, they used to call these things ‘phobias’. In this case, it was “social phobia”.
Social anxiety is treated by mainstream medicine in two ways – Cognitive Behavior Therapy or with drugs. You may have tried either or both with limited success.
In this post, you’ll find out why they didn’t succeed in taming your symptoms. And provide you with some natural options that may work better.
Table of Contents
What Causes Social Anxiety
One of the problems with social anxiety is poor self-esteem. And it feels like it’s somehow your fault. That social anxiety is a moral failure. Or could have been caused by a crappy childhood.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Social anxiety is primarily a chemistry imbalance in your brain. And if this balance of neurotransmitters and their systems can be restored, you should be relieved of social anxiety symptoms.
Anxiety is a Neurotransmitter Problem
Your brain is governed by multiple neurotransmitter systems. The most extensive of these are GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) and glutamate.
The other three neurotransmitter systems – serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine – have also been studied extensively in both normal states, and states of anxiety.[ii]
And we know that each of these neurotransmitters play a role in anxiety because there are prescription drug therapies that affect each one.
But social anxiety is not caused by a deficiency in one neurotransmitter or another. The networks governed by these neurotransmitters are interrelated, have multiple feedback loops, and sport complex receptor structures.[iii]
This is why you may have had little success with your anxiety, and using a prescription SSRI or MAOI. And why nootropics – especially adaptogens – could be your answer. More on that in a minute.
So if you have been led to believe by others that the primary culprit associated with social anxiety are GABA or glutamate. And that Phenibut or Aniracetam are guaranteed to relieve your social anxiety issues. You have not been given the full story about what’s causing your anxiety.
Next we’ll look at each neurotransmitter and its association with social anxiety.
Serotonin
Serotonin plays a fundamental role in regulating your brain states. Including anxiety. And it modulates dopamine and norepinephrine as well.[iv]
There are also several serotonin receptor subtypes. For example, serotonin-1a receptor is both a mediator and inhibitor of serotonin depending on whether it is on the presynaptic or postsynaptic neuron.[v]
And not all serotonin subtype receptors provide anxiolytic effects. A classic example of this is serotonin-2a receptor which provides the psychedelic effects when you use LSD or mescaline.[vi]
But despite all this complexity, it’s true that many people get some relief from anxiety symptoms by using meds that inhibit the reuptake of serotonin using SSRI’s.
If you respond well to SSRI’s but hate the side effects. And are looking for a safe alternative. You should avoid using nootropics like L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP.
Instead, use nootropics that help modulate serotonin and bring it under control. Try Bacopa Monnieri, Ginkgo Biloba, Rhodiola Rosea, or Vitamin D3 with Omega-3s. All have been shown in clinical studies as well as practical user experience to reduce anxiety by keeping serotonin under control.
GABA (Gamma-aminobutyric Acid)
GABA is your main inhibitory neurotransmitter. Increases in GABA using barbiturates or benzodiazepines can have a anxiolytic effect for some people.
Drugs in this class do not directly bind to GABA receptors. Instead, they affect the associated chloride channel. Barbiturates do this by increasing the duration of the channel’s open state. While benzodiazepines increase the frequency of opening.
The big problem with these types of drugs however is tolerance and potentially fatal side effects. And they kill your ability to encode memories.[vii]
So sometimes anticonvulsant drugs like gabapentin are used instead. Which blocks calcium channels. Resulting in a boost of GABA transmission.[viii]
And this is why some of the racetams display anxiolytic activity. Because nootropics like Aniracetam and Oxiracetam affect the ion channels. Somehow increasing the excitability of those neurons and increasing the effectiveness of some neurotransmitters. More on that in the next section.
Dopamine
Dopamine’s role in normal and anxiety activity in your brain is complex. And dopamine pathways may affect social anxiety in several ways.[ix] For example, drugs like Olanzapine inhibit the dopamine D2 receptor and provide anti-anxiety affects.
Dopamine signaling helps promote feelings of self-confidence and self-esteem which helps to reduce anxiety. Which is the reason why some people with social anxiety issues respond well to drugs like Wellbutrin which help boost dopamine.[x]
See the next section for more on nootropics like Folate and L-Theanine which help boost dopamine in your brain.
Norepinephrine
Norepinephrine plays a complex role in anxiety states. And many social anxiety symptoms can be reduced by modulating norepinephrine in your brain.
For example, propranolol (which is classed as a beta-blocker), an antagonist of the beta2-norepinephrine receptor, is used to reduce the rapid heart rate, tremors and quivering voice that you get when you’re about to step on stage in front of an audience.[xi]
Some SNRI’s (serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors) are also effective in quelling social anxiety symptoms.[xii] Drugs like Cymbalta help boost serotonin and norepinephrine activity in your brain.
Several natural nootropic alternatives to beta-blockers are available. Nootropics like magnesium, L-tryptophan and St. John’s wort are used by many to treat social anxiety. More on these beta-blocker alternatives in the next section of this post.
Glutamate
Glutamate is your primary excitatory neurotransmitter. And is involved in every neuronal pathway in your brain and body. Including those that affect social anxiety states.[xiii]
The NMDA receptor is also particularly important for social anxiety disorders. Because it helps mediate learning and memory. Activation of the NMDA receptor triggers protein synthesis. Which strengthens the connection between neurons.[xiv]
This NMDA activity in learning and memory is likely one of the reasons why Cognitive Behavior Therapy is sometimes effective in treating social anxiety. Because you are put into situations that help you ‘unlearn’ certain situations that make you uncomfortable.
But forcing you to walk into a crowded bar and ask for the phone numbers of 50 female strangers. Simply to ‘unlearn’ the social anxiety that keeps you from meeting new people. Seems like cruel and inhumane punishment to me. There has to be better way.
And it turns out there is. Nootropics like Cat’s Claw, many of the racetam’s, L-Theanine, and Noopept all modulate NMDA receptors and glutamate.
Other Neurotransmitters
Several other neurotransmitters play a role in social anxiety. And the associated systems involving fear and anxiety. Including neuropeptides, corticotrophin-releasing factor (CRF) and cannabinoids.
But none of the experimental compounds have translated into FDA-approved drugs. The excuse is the stringent criteria for approval of these treatments.
I’d guess that money plays more of a role than “stringent criteria”.
You can’t patent and charge exorbitant prices for compounds like cannabis which in low doses is a very effective social anxiety treatment.[xv]
And Noopept is based off the endogenous neuropeptide cycloprolylglycine (CPG). Researchers in Moscow found Noopept similar to Piracetam in not only it’s nootropic effect, but also anxiolytic activity.[xvi]
Recommendations of Nootropics for Social Anxiety
If you are currently being treated for social anxiety. Or suspect you may be dealing with undiagnosed anxiety disorder. And are looking for a more natural, safer way to treat your symptoms. Nootropics could be the answer.
And you’re not alone looking for alternatives to drugs that come with a host of side effects. Research in the United States and other counties show that significant numbers of people use ‘alternative medicine’ to treat their problems.
A study in the US with 1035 people showed that more people were using alternative medicine and nootropics to treat social anxiety symptoms. Than for any other health problem. Including back problems, chronic pain, and urinary tract infections.[xvii]
Another meta-analysis of 42 clinical studies was used to determine which was more effective in treating anxiety. They compared Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) with drug treatment.
The meta-analysis concluded that the evidence showed there was little difference in the positive outcomes. Of using CBT or pharmaceuticals.[xviii]
This meta-analysis tells us that if you had a choice between the humiliation of Cognitive Behavior Therapy or nootropics. The outcome would be about the same. So which would you choose?
If your choice is nootropics to treat social anxiety issues, here are some you can try.
Natural Alternatives to Beta Blockers
In the section on norepinephrine we found that prescription beta-blockers are often used to treat anxiety. Some natural alternatives include:
- DHA (Omega-3) – fatty acids make up a significant portion of your brain cell membranes. Low levels of Omega-3’s result in ADHD, anxiety, depression, suicide and an increased risk of Alzheimer’s and dementia.
- Magnesium – lack of adequate magnesium can result in brain fog, anxiety and depression. Plasticity of neuron synapses is affected by the presence of adequate magnesium in brain cells.
- St. John’s wort – has been used for centuries to treat anxiety, depression and stress. St. John’s wort works by preventing the re-uptake of serotonin in your brain. Much like prescription anti-depressants.
A quick note about Vitamin D. Excessive levels of this vitamin can affect the way your body and brain processes calcium. Calcium channels in your brain are implicated in anxiety. You absolutely need adequate Vitamin D levels in your body. Just don’t overdo it.
Alternatives to SSRI’s, MAOI’s and other anti-anxiety drugs
Rather than separate these into how each affects the various neurotransmitters that affect social anxiety. I’m listing them in alphabetical order.
Please do the research on each nootropic before trying it. Especially if you are currently using prescription anti-anxiety drugs.
- Aniracetam – This member of the racetam-family of nootropics works with dopamine D2 and D3 receptors in your brain. And desensitizes AMPA (glutamate) receptors. Aniracetam is one of the most effective antidepressants I’ve ever tried. And its effects on dopamine in your brain can have a profound effect on anxiety symptoms.
- Ashwagandha – This adaptogen has been used for millennia to relieve anxiety, fatigue, restore energy and boost concentration. Clinical studies have shown Ashwagandha to repair and even reverse damage caused in the brain caused by chronic anxiety and stress.
- Bacopa Monnieri – This adaptogen has been used since ancient times to reduce anxiety, depression and stress. It protects your neurons and balances neurotransmitters.
- Cacao – Cacao and dark chocolate (75%+ cacao) stimulates the release of phenylethylamine (PEA) which boosts focus and awareness. And anandamide (the bliss molecule) which helps you feel good. Cacao is a source of tryptophan which is the precursor to serotonin. And theobromine which boosts blood flow, is a stimulant, and may account for chocolate’s aphrodisiac qualities.
- Folate – Vitamin B9 (folate) is used by your brain to make dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin. Folate is involved in gene expression, amino acid synthesis, and myelin synthesis and repair. It’s even involved in cerebral circulation. Powerful anti-anxiety treatment in this B-vitamin.
- Ginkgo Biloba – This tree native to China has been used for thousands of years to boost mental alertness, improve cerebral circulation and for overall brain function. Many have found Ginkgo to be very effective in reducing stress and anxiety. And boosting mood.
- Ginseng – Panax ginseng has been used as a memory booster, improves mood, lowers anxiety levels and boosts stamina and endurance.
- Gotu Kola – Gotu kola is one of the most important herbs in ancient Ayurvedic medicine. This herb helps boost nerve growth factor which can have a profound effect on anxiety. Many report that Gotu kola may be even more effective in reducing anxiety and relieving stress than Ashwagandha.
- Kava – Kava is native to the South Pacific. And the islanders use kava for its sedative effects. Kava can help reduce anxiety and improve mood. Unlike benzodiazepines, kava does not impair cognitive function. In fact, studies show kava may boost cognitive function.
- Lemon Balm – Lemon balm is used for its anti-anxiety effects. Rosmarinic acid, a compound found in lemon balm, inhibits the GABA transaminase enzyme. Which in turn helps maintain adequate levels of GABA in your brain. Resulting in a calming effect.
- Lion’s Mane – Lion’s Mane Mushroom boosts brain nerve growth factor which increases neurogenesis. Lion’s Mane can help improve focus and attention, boost thinking, repair brain cells, help depression and anxiety, and manage other neurological problems like Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson’s and muscular dystrophy.
- L-Theanine – L-Theanine naturally occurs in green and oolong tea. This amino acid is used as a nootropic for anxiety, learning, mood and focus. It works quickly in your brain to increase dopamine and serotonin.
- Phenibut – Phenibut is a GABA agonist and primarily binds to the GABA-b receptor. GABA-a receptor agonists include alcohol and benzodiazepines. Phenibut can have a sedative effect, and has strong anti-anxiety qualities. It can be used to combat depression, improve mood, cognitive function and motivation.
- Phenylalanine – This amino acid is a precursor to the synthesis of tyrosine in your brain. Tyrosine then helps in the formation and utilization of the neurotransmitters dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine and melatonin. Helping to relieve anxiety, and chronic pain. And boost focus and motivation.
- Picamilon – Picamilon is a combination of niacin (Vitamin B3) and GABA. Similar to Phenibut, Picamilon improves memory, concentration, motivation, focus, has strong anti-anxiety properties, and can lower blood pressure.
- Rhodiola Rosea – Rhodiola activates AMPA receptors in your brain. Which decreases depression and stress-related mood swings, reduces fatigue, stimulates energy and alertness and boosts cognition.
- St. John’s wort – This plant has been traditionally used for mood disorders and wound healing. Today it’s used mostly as a treatment for anxiety, depression and stress. St. John’s wort works like prescription SSRI’s by preventing reuptake of serotonin in your brain. But please read the precautions for using this nootropic in the extended article.
- Tryptophan – This amino acid is a precursor to serotonin, melatonin and niacin (Vitamin B3) in your brain. L-Tryptophan is used to treat anxiety, ADHD, depression, insomnia, memory loss, pain and eating disorders.
- Vitamin B6 – Vitamin B6 helps your brain make serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin. The activated form of Vitamin B6 called P-5-P is particularly effective in boosting serotonin and GABA in your brain. And providing potent anti-anxiety effects.
- Vitamin B12 – This B-vitamin plays a key role in the efficient conversion of carbohydrates to glucose – your cell’s source of fuel. It also helps your body convert fatty acids into energy. Supplementing with Vitamin B12 can help lower anxiety, and elevate alertness, cognition, energy, vision, elevate mood and relieve insomnia. No more mood swings!
Social Anxiety Eliminated
Nootropics are a strong alternative to many anti-anxiety medications currently prescribed by doctors. And promoted by the Big Pharmaceutical companies.
But a very strong word of caution – if you are currently using any prescription anti-anxiety or antidepressant medications. Or any medications for that matter. Research each nootropic including side effects and prescription drug interactions before using them.
You can eliminate social anxiety once-and-for-all with nootropics. If you do your research. And are willing to experiment until you find the one or two that is right for you.
[i] Kessler R.C., McGonagle K.A., Zhao S., Nelson C.B., Hughes M., Eshleman S., Wittchen H.U., Kendler K.S. “Lifetime and 12-month prevalence of DSM-III-R psychiatric disorders in the United States. Results from the National Comorbidity Survey.” Archives of General Psychiatry. 1994 Jan;51(1):8-19. (source)
[ii] Charney D.S. “Neuroanatomical circuits modulating fear and anxiety behaviors.” Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica: Supplement. 2003;(417):38-50. (source)
[iii] Pytliak M1, Vargová V, Mechírová V, Felšöci M. “Serotonin receptors - from molecular biology to clinical applications.” Physiological Research. 2011;60(1):15-25. (source)
[iv] Heninger G.R., Charney D.S. “Monoamine receptor systems and anxiety disorders.” Psychiatric Clinics of North America. 1988 Jun;11(2):309-26. (source)
[v] Harvey B.H., Naciti C., Brand L., Stein D.J. “Endocrine, cognitive and hippocampal/cortical 5HT 1A/2A receptor changes evoked by a time-dependent sensitisation (TDS) stress model in rats.” Brain Research. 2003 Sep 5; 983(1-2):97-107. (source)
[vi] Burris K.D., Sanders-Bush E. “Unsurmountable antagonism of brain 5-hydroxytryptamine2 receptors by (+)-lysergic acid diethylamide and bromo-lysergic acid diethylamide.” Molecular Pharmacology. 1992 Nov; 42(5):826-30. (source)
[vii] Roy-Byrne P.P., Sullivan M.D., Cowley D.S., Ries R.K. “Adjunctive treatment of benzodiazepine discontinuation syndromes: a review.” Journal of Psychiatric Research. 1993; 27 Suppl 1():143-53. (source)
[viii] Pollack M.H., Matthews J., Scott E.L. “Gabapentin as a potential treatment for anxiety disorders.” American Journal of Psychiatry. 1998 Jul; 155(7):992-3. (source)
[ix] de la Mora M.P., Gallegos-Cari A., Arizmendi-García Y., Marcellino D., Fuxe K. “Role of dopamine receptor mechanisms in the amygdaloid modulation of fear and anxiety: Structural and functional analysis.” Progress in Neurobiology. 2010 Feb 9; 90(2):198-216. (source)
[x] Bystritsky A., Kerwin L., Feusner J.D., Vapnik T. “A pilot controlled trial of bupropion XL versus escitalopram in generalized anxiety disorder.” Psychopharmacology Bulletin. 2008; 41(1):46-51. (source)
[xi] Davidson J.R., Foa E.B., Connor K.M., Churchill L.E. “Hyperhidrosis in social anxiety disorder.” Progress in Neuropsychopharmacology and Biological Psychiatry. 2002 Dec; 26(7-8):1327-31. (source)
[xii] Mancini M., Perna G., Rossi A., Petralia A. “Use of duloxetine in patients with an anxiety disorder, or with comorbid anxiety and major depressive disorder: a review of the literature.” Expert Opinion in Pharmacotherapy. 2010 May;11(7):1167-81. (source)
[xiii] Carobrez A.P., Teixeira K.V., Graeff F.G. “Modulation of defensive behavior by periaqueductal gray NMDA/glycine-B receptor.” Neuroscience of Biobehavioral Review. 2001 Dec; 25(7-8):697-709. (source)
[xiv] Myers K.M., Carlezon W.A. Jr., Davis M. “Glutamate receptors in extinction and extinction-based therapies for psychiatric illness.” Neuropsychopharmacology. 2011 Jan;36(1):274-93 (source)
[xv] Moreira F.A., Wotjak C.T. “Cannabinoids and anxiety.” Current Top Behavioral Neuroscience. 2010;2:429-50. (source)
[xvi] Gudasheva T.A., Konstantinopol’skii M.A., Ostrovskaya R.U., Seredenin S.B. “Anxiolytic activity of endogenous nootropic dipeptide cycloprolylglycine in elevated plus-maze test.” Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine. 2001 May;131(5):464-6. (source)
[xvii] Astin J.A. “Why patients use alternative medicine: results of a national study.” JAMA. 1998 May 20;279(19):1548-53. (source)
[xviii] Roshanaei-Moghaddam B., Pauly M.C., Atkins D.C., Baldwin S.A., Stein M.B., Roy-Byrne P. “Relative effects of CBT and pharmacotherapy in depression versus anxiety: is medication somewhat better for depression, and CBT somewhat better for anxiety?” Depression and Anxiety. 2011 Jul;28(7):560-7 (source)
Hi David,
you have written at Bacopa Monnieri it is able “to balance” Neurotransmitter.
What exactly does that mean ? It automatically finds low and high Neurotransmitter and regulate them to normal ?
If that is true, how Bacooa is able to do that and where i can read more about that (i wasnt able to find it by googeling) ?
If not maybe there exist other Nootropics which might would be able to do that ?
Dan, one way Bacopa Monnieri works is by modulation of neurotransmitter production, release, and synaptic concentration. And it’s complicated. So rather than try to repeat it here I’m sending you to this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746283/.
The explanation starts about halfway down the page starting at: “Neurotransmitter potentiation”. Hope that is what you were looking for.
Thanks for the answer.
Im not sure i understood the Study well but for me it sounds more like Bacopa is able to increase Serotonin, Acetylcholine and lowers Dopamine(because of increased Serotonin) a bit rather than “balancing”.
With the term balancing i thought it would be able to support normalizing all main Neurotransmitter. Like if low Dopamine it helps release or high Serotonin inhibit release…
Panax Quinquefolium seem to be similar to Bacopa but it works aswell on Noradrenaline.
So i might not be as lucky to find a Nootropic which is able to support balancing?
Or does i didnt understood the study correctly (im not best in english language) ?
Dan, I looked through that study again and agree with your assessment. Bacopa Monnieri was consistently shown through different studies to increase acetylcholine and serotonin. But depresses dopamine.
Take a look through this list: https://nootropicsexpert.com/top-7-nootropic-adaptogens-to-conquer-anxiety-and-stress/. Lemon Balm or Rhodiola Rosea may be able to do what you’re looking for.
Maybe Bacopa though is able to “balance atleast Dopamine according this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3897008/
Bacopa seems to be able to
Decrease but aswell increase Dopamine. Because Serotonin is connected to Dopamine this may lead to further balancing in Serotonin, who knows.
Maybe its though doing great to balance Neurotransmitter, i dont know.
Dan, this section of the study you linked to says, “the ethanolic extract of the leaves of Alstonia Scholaris and Bacopa Monnieri decreases the dopamine levels in the frontal cortical regions of the brain. The dopamine-lowering effects of the extracts were less than the standard drug, but the encouraging fact was that the extracts did not alter the level of dopamine in the striatum region of the brain.”
So according to this study at least it doesn’t appear that Bacopa Monnieri has much of an effect on dopamine. And in fact seems to lower it in certain regions of the brain.
Hi David
first of all im glad I found you on YouTube this is a goldmine of help to many who have social anxiety like myself, I want to know your opinion on which of the nootropics you listed can I take everyday year round without having to cycle them to avoid withdrawals. or can I stack them all together?
Aniracetam
Ashwagandha
Bacopa Monnieri
Folate
Ginkgo Biloba
Ginseng
Gotu Kola
Kava
Lemon Balm
Lion’s Mane Mushroom
L-Theanine
Phenylalanine
Picamilon
Rhodiola Rosea
St. John’s wort
Tryptophan
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Danny, the only supplement on your list that some cycle is Aniracetam. But abruptly quitting Aniracetam should not be a problem.
You may experience withdrawal symptoms after long-term use of L-Tryptophan.
Hi David,
Thank you for your gracious work.
I am just learning about nootropics and waiting for a delivery of MLPro, so that is first. But I have a good selection of Bulk Supplement powders and took 1g GABA and got a flush reaction. What does that indicate?
Kevin, that is a fairly common reaction reported by bodybuilders who use very high doses of GABA. Sounds like you just took too much. Cut your dose in half and see if that helps.
Sorry i couldnt reply to the other post:
You said:
“Paolo, thanks for sharing that study. It leads to other studies that show Hawthorne Berry as effective as or better than prescription beta-blockers in treating heart disease and failure. But does not act as a beta-blocker: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15353901/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18490196/. I don’t think they ever figured out why it works. It just does.”
Sorry i think i dont understand it exactly. To clarify if Hawthorne Berry dont act like a real beta blocker (blocks β1 and β2-adrenergic receptor). We can assume it wont work to reduce symptoms triggered by social anxiety like tremors/trembling, hearth race, brain fog, voice…
Because we said those symptoms are triggered by the fight and flight response trough epinephrine and norepinephrine.
So if Hawthorne works different then blocking epinephrine and norepinephrine it does mean it wont work in our case to reduce social anxiety symptoms (trembling…) true ?
Paolo, that may be true. In this case, the only way to find out is to try Hawthorne Berry and see if it helps.
Hi David,
ok thanks for clarification.
So the best alternatives for beta blocker (propranolol) keep being Taurine, DHA, Magnesium ?
Is there anything other powerful i could try beside Lithium ororate (cant get that) ?
I do take all of the others daylie but they feel a lot less powerful like some herbs. Thats very unlucky there does not exist something to direct block epinephrine like real beta blocker.
Paolo, I am not aware of any natural supplement that works specifically like a “beta blocker”. Nothing that will “block” norepinephrine. You don’t want to block all norepinephrine. Because if you did you wouldn’t be able to function.
Hi David,
First of all thank you for all the information you provide on nootropics. I haven’t found the right combination that works for me yet but I am truly grateful that you share your knowledge with the rest of us. I myself have some form of social anxiety. In stressful situations (which for me are social situations) I start sweating and blushing really easily. I think I got some relief with a mao inhibitor but when I was taking it for a longer period (after about 6 months) it drastically increased my anxiety. And there is a worleide shortage going on as well.
Now I take a daily mix of magnesium, l-theanine, fish oil, l-tyrosine and sometimes cdp choline.
I am now experimenting with aniracetam and sulbutiamine. However when taking about 300-500 mg of aniracetam it makes me kind of sleepy and gives me a weird feeling in my head. Sulbutiamine is a bit more stimulating for me in the beginning and after the initial effect I do get a calm almost satisfied feeling from it. Any thoughts on why aniracetam makes me feel this way?
Fay are you using a choline supplement with Aniracetam? Because it promotes the use of acetylcholine in your brain by 200 – 300%. So you need to ensure that acetylcholine is present for Aniracetam to work with or you’ll experience the symptoms you describe. Or even a headache.
And if you use an MAOI long-term but either don’t have enough dopamine or norepinephrine you’ll have problems. Or if you push dopamine too high you suppress serotonin. Have you tried using L-Tyrosine? or L-Tryptophan for serotonin?
I just published another piece on anxiety that you may find helpful. Because it describes other options for you to try. You’ll find that here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-anxiety/
Sorry Moo i jumped into your conversation, sometimes i cant resist my impulses. Thanks David sorry i couldnt reply to your asnwer, so i need to create a new post.
The tremors/shaking hands are caused by my social anxiety in stress situation, yes the panic attacks are caused because of overwhelming overthinking.
I tried a few things, on my current stack it seems like NALT amplifys those (according seller).
Do lithium orotate help to handle those tremors aswell or do it help with panic attacks only ? I have read daylie usage can lead to deadly overdose, is that true ?
May Magnesium Glycinate can help with my tremors ? There is not a lot more inside the “beta blocker” Paragraph beside DHA i could try (and both i just ordered today).
Its a pain im not able to get this tremors rid off. Its aswell hard to test Nootropics, because of nocebo placebo. Rigth after the beginning with my nootropics i had a few very good days for months.
Paolo, one beta blocker that I have not reviewed is Hawthorne Berry which comes up time and again in clinical studies for this purpose: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3989080/
Magnesium Glycinate may help as long as you keep your dose at 400 mg per day or less.
Lithium Orotate may help with both. Not sure where you came up with the “deadly overdose” part because at 5 mg of elemental lithium, it’s so low it doesn’t even show up on blood tests.
And BTW, the National Institute of Health points out that tremors can be caused by “anxiety or panic”. https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Tremor-Fact-Sheet
Thanks for your answer.
Hawthorne Berry looks interesting.
Why exactly Magnesium Glycinate work just below 400 mg (does it stops working after) ? Do we talk about elemental Magnesium ? Because the capsules i have seen are all around 650mg Magnesium Glycinate and around 100-125mg elemental Magnesium.
I have read from the “deadly overdose” on reddit. One person told that his wife took Lithium Orotate at lower dose like 5mg. His doctor told her to check levels in blood and she was close to a risky high overdose. Some other sites aswell notice to keep the blood values in check if lithium Orotate is used to dont risk an overdose. But its hard to say if the women hit the overdose by wrong medication, wrong use, bad supplier.
But unluckily im not able to get it easily, so i cant use it tough.
Yeah for sure my tremors are caused by my social anxiety. I already have some light tremors outside of stress situations. But those are aswell from my anxiety – stress. When hitting stress situations it gets much much worse. I cant use my hands then correctly witouth looking like a drug addict.
Paolo, your body can only use so much magnesium and it’ll excrete the magnesium it cannot use. There’s no point in over-dosing this supplement just like there is no point in over-dosing any supplement. But a lot of magnesium supplements are cheap forms that our body cannot use. If you are particularly sensitive to this kind of thing something other than the natural, chelated version could cause real problems.
I’ve taken too much magnesium before and tremors were the result.
And please don’t believe everything you ‘read’. Including what I say or write. Always do your own research to verify what people are saying is true. I cannot imagine someone having issues with 5 mg of lithium. It simply doesn’t make sense. Depression and mania is treated with 800 and 900 mg of lithium carbonate. So 5 mg?
Tremors are a symptom of chronic anxiety as well. You know your own body better than anyone. It’s wise to listen to it because it tells you what it needs to thrive.
Ok, thanks David for your help all the time. Your the only one out there really trying to help others, your a good person.
We talk about 400mg elemental magnesium here, true ? I took around 1000mg magnesium glycinate (200 mg elemental magnesium) just now and it did feel pretty good so far.
Im a very very skeptical person, dont worry. But you convinced me now to try out GABA (i talked about my deficiency on your GABA post), i still have mixed feeling about that, but we will see ;D.
Im just not able to find useful informations about Hawthorne Berry. May you can help me out there ?
Is Hawthorne Berry able to remove physical symptoms caused by social anxiety/anxiety ?
Do that include all physical symptoms aswell like tremors/shaking or only rapid hearth race and blood pressure ?
What do you think would be a good dosage to try ? (so i could buy the right one).
At wich time should i take it and how long does it work ?
Can i use Hawthorne Berry long term ?
How strong is it compared to prescription beta blockers ? (like 1/2 or 3/4 to get an idea)
I probably dont need “beta blockers” if i would be able to fix my gaba deficiency but i think that will be hard mission i will work a long time. Having something nice to fight my tremors/shaking would be very helpful. Ashwagandha wasnt as bad, but a day witouth amplified my symptoms. Feeled like all suppressed symtoms came back at once.
Paolo, I still need to do a review of Hawthorne Berry if there’s enough clinical evidence that it’s proven effective. But you look at user reviews and they’re pretty convincing that it’s effective. As for long-term, here’s a study with 2691 patients who used if for 24 months with good success: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.ejheart.2008.10.004. They used WS® 1442 extract 900 mg / day.
David, we shortly talked about Hawthorn berry.
You shared me a link about a study wich classified Hawthorn berry as beta blocker.
But even tough i still cant find any information about its work as beta blocker on other studies they say Hawthorn berry does not involve β-adrenergic receptor blockade but have a positive effect on lowering blood pressure. While a real beta blocker blocks β1 and β2-adrenergic receptor like propranolol.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249900/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16487691/
This studies seem to be old. What do you think about it ? May they came to a new conclusion about Hawthorne berry and beta blocker ?
Paolo, thanks for sharing that study. It leads to other studies that show Hawthorne Berry as effective as or better than prescription beta-blockers in treating heart disease and failure. But does not act as a beta-blocker: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15353901/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18490196/. I don’t think they ever figured out why it works. It just does.
Hi David,
I surfer from anxiety in a few different forms. Started around 7 years ago when I had a panic attack at work for no apparent reason, and since then I have work place anxiety; such as in situations where I have to give presentations, public speaking, training large groups, or working with people I don’t know very well. I just crumble to a stuttering mess, forget everything I know, feel like I’m going to cry and generally fear I’m going to have another panic attack. I rarely get social anxiety with informal settings, but it does come sometimes.
I get anxiety in situations where I know I may be uncomfortable or in an emotional situation. For example at work last week somebody left the company and they said goodbye in front of the staff and I felt like I was going to cry (even though I don’t know them!) and I almost had a panic attack.
I sometimes get generalized anxiety, where I’ll be doing something normal like driving a car, watching TV and suddenly just get really anxious about no specific thing and feel like I’m going to have a panic attack.
My doctor prescribes me Xanax and it really works wonders, I can stand in front of big crowd and present (still get a bit sweaty and nervous, but no feelings of panic), but I don’t really like the side effects – sleepiness, addiction and sometimes I feel too nonchalant about things.
I did try Lexapro, but it made me far to high, alert and still anxious. Dropped to a lower dose and It felt like I had the flu all the time, made me depressed and didn’t help with the anxiety.
So I’m looking for a more natural solution, and with those two things in mind, where would be the best place to start? Your post is great, but I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed with info.
In your May reply to Paolo you advise a basic approach to figure out what’s causing the anxiety. However, I was left a bit confused as you mention Alpha GPC, CDP-Choline, acetylcholine and L-Tyrosine, but these aren’t actually mentioned in the main article.
I tried taking 400mg of magnesium, alongside 1000mg of calcium and 20mcg of Vitamin D3 for 6 months or so, but don’t think I really saw any effect from that.
Thanks,
Moo
Moo, I need to re-write at least part of this post and include using the trial and error method for isolating which neurotransmitter may be causing you problems.
But you’re a couple steps closer to finding a solution because you said Xanax works for you. Xanax is a benzo which works in your brain by binding to the GABAa receptor. This means you likely have problems with GABA.
I’d start by using a GABA 500 – 750 mg supplement before bed and see if it helps.
Then do a search of Nootropics Expert using the search function top right for the keyword “Xanax” and another search for “Alprazolam”. And see what turns up. You’ll get search results listing a few nootropic supplements where somewhere in my review “Xanax” will be mentioned. Likely because either a clinical study compared that nootropic to Xanax in a study. Or someone commented that they found that nootropic worked as well as Xanax.
Hi David,
Thanks for the reply.
Yes after leaving the comment I read through all the other comments on this page and saw your advice about finding nootropics that effect the same things as any successful medication.
I also found this quiz which tries to identify which neurotransmitters you may be deficient in, my results also suggest GABA deficiency. (Nootropics Expert edit: Dr. Braverman’s website and the author of “The Edge Effect”)
So yes, I ordered some 500mb GABA and will try that.
I also ordered DHA, Vitamin B complex and Magnesium based on your other comments on creating a base stack.
Thanks for your help and info.
Moo, good find because it was Dr. Braverman’s book “The Edge Effect” (https://amzn.to/3iYygJR) where I learned that I was likely deficient in GABA. And sure enough, 750 mg GABA before bed and I felt better the next day. And it was the inspiration for my method of testing neurotransmitters with each precursor to figure out what you might be low in. Thanks for the reminder sir!
According the Bravermantest i need suppliment for all Neurotransmitter oO.
1A Total Number of True Responses – DOPAMINE Nature: 26
2A Total Number of True Responses – ACETYLCHOLINE Nature: 25
3A Total Number of True Responses – GABA Nature: 19
4A Total Number of True Responses – SEROTONIN Nature: 22
You are DOPAMINE Dominant.
Deficiency Results Summary
1B Total Number of True Responses – DOPAMINE Deficiency: 15
2B Total Number of True Responses – ACETYLCHOLINE Deficiency: 18
3B Total Number of True Responses – GABA Deficiency: 29
4B Total Number of True Responses – SEROTONIN Deficiency: 21
(major deficit above 15)
I had a strong fallback, i tryed a lot of things now. I cant handle my tremors – panic attack maybe i should try soemthing like beta blocker alternatives. I was already using Tryptophan, maybe i add Magnesium ? Or go for St. Wort John’s.
Paolo, be careful with St. John’s wort especially if you’re using any prescription meds.
I think you may be overthinking this and overwhelming yourself to the point of panic attacks. Lithium Orotate helps with panic attacks BTW.
If you are dopamine dominant and deficient in serotonin it helps to bring them back into balance. And you do that by avoiding anything that boosts dopamine and use L-Tryptophan instead to raise serotonin.
Are the tremors caused by any of the supplements you are using? Or has this been a problem before you started using supplements?
Dear David.
This site is one of the best I’ve seen as far as nootropics are concerned. Thanks very much for your time in putting this together.
My anxiety is largely physical, which then causes the psychological to also rise. I have found propranolol to help very much with physical anxiety. Which nootropic would you recommend which can replace propranolol?
I am currently taking ashwaghanda as I’ve read about it’s ability to reduce the minds fight or flight affect, this is my main struggle.
Thank you very much.
Deen, Propranolol is a beta blocker. And the only natural true beta blocker that I’m aware of is Hawthorne Berry.
See “Table 1” in this clinical review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3989080/ which includes a list of supplements that mimic the action of pharmaceuticals like Diuretics, Calcium-Channel Blockers, Beta Blockers, Angiotensin-Converting Enzyme Inhibitors, Central Alpha Agonists, Angiotensin-Receptor Blockers, and Direct Vasodilators.
Hi David,
I love your approach of addressing anxiety/depression by searching for its root
cause i.e. the neurotransmitter/s that are responsible for it. You recommend to do this by using
the direct precursors such as CDP-Choline for acetylcholine, L-Tyrosine for dopamine and
norepinephrine and L-Tryptophan for serotonin.
Apart from the above mentioned direct precursors and their respective neurotransmitters, I
couldn’t find information related to that of GABA and glutamate or any other (if I have
missed any). Can you please mention those missed? I would be greatful for your response.
Owais, for GABA you would use a GABA supplement, and for glutamate you’d use L-Glutamine.
Thanks again for your great work and site David.
I was trying L-Theanine 500mg, Ashwaganda 1000mg, Phosphatidylserine 200mg, Tryptophan 1000mg for a month + now (post below), even tough the products i bought might where not best quality i can feel a good improvement. I still have a few symptoms tremors and others as described but quite weaker. Im far away form hearth racing/ panic attacks then before and on some days im feeling close to normal and most days better then before. I found a good store where i can make my own stack for an affordable price with good quality ingredients.
So i decided may to extend my stack with other suppliments provided by your article before im running out of my current stack.
Daylie first half morning second half early afternoon:
L-Theanine 250.0 mg
KSM-66® Ashwagandha 450.0 mg
Synapsa™ Bacopa Monnieri 300.0 mg
Lemon Balm Extract 4:1 250.0 mg
Rhodiola Rosea 3R/1S 200.0 mg
Phosphatidylserine 50% 320.0 mg
N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) 350.0 mg
Taurine 350.0 mg / or Lions Mane Mushroom 350mg
Vitamin B6 (P5P) 40.0 mg
Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) 1% 20.0 mg -> (0,2mg)
Vitamin D3 0.25% 40.0 mg ~4000 IU
Piperine (BioPerine®) Pepper Extract 5.0 mg
I know its quite crazy i just put almost everything you shared into this stack, some even have a similar function.
What do you think about this stack in general ? Would you replace/remove/add other ingredients to this stack ? I can add up to 12 ingredients.
Thanks for your help.
Just saw this. Looks like you have it covered. Don’t expect perfect results right away. Some of the nootropics in your stack will take awhile to provide their full benefit if you’re dosing everyday. Especially the adaptogens.
Thanks, thats absolutely no problem if the adaptgens take some time to work properly. There where a lot other nootropics i would have added to my stack but unluckily there was no more place.
Im not sure if one of those would have been better:
Lions mane / Gotu Kola / Magnesium Glycinate / Alpha gpc / Ginkgo Biloba / Inositol / 5Htp / ALCAR / DHA / NAC /Uridine Monophosphate / Valerian / B1(not sulbutiamine)/ B3 / B5 …
especially Gotu Kola or Lions mane i was very interested because of the nerve growth factor, but i need to replace them with one above and id like to stay below 2600 mg overall(4 capsule, 2 morning, 2 early afternoon; else i have 5 -> cant replace it well with b vitamins and use a B-complex instead).
With this stack furthermore i tried to force gaba working good. Lemon Balm as Transaminase Inhibition, Taurine(passion flower is not available) as weak Gaba Agonism, Ashwagandha as positive allosteric modulator and others like L-Theanine to boost Gaba aswell. Im not sure if this will work perfectly as im thinking.
Ashwagandha, Bacopa and Phosphatidylserine to keep Cortisol in check -> stress/panic attacks.
Vitamin D is here because i had a big deficiency (fixed already) and if i take this one daylie it goes side by side to keep VitD levels normal.
The others im not sure, but i tought the B Vitamins (folate isnt available) are really necessary to synergie well.
Rhodiola Rosea cause many advised this as stack combination to ashwagandha and L-Theanine.
And a bit of NALT to higher self estem and mood, but i got already others and piperine wich boost dopamine so the low dosage maybe is fine.
Piperine to boost everything a bit and let me use quitly lower dosages.
I still take daylie L-Tryptophan at night, i have one for 4-5 months, to keep Norepinephrine in check.
No clue if i should maybe replace Rhodiola Rosea with Gotu Kola or anything else or maybe even with something else.
Its really not easy to create a good stack, but im trying my best.
Paolo, the key to success with nootropics is trying them until you find something that works. Your goal is to feel better I think. So don’t overthink this. It sounds like you’ve done your research. Keep on experimenting until you find a stack that works for you. Only you can know what that stack is.
Thanks again (0,2mg)
Vitamin D3 0.25% 40.0 mg ~4000 IU
Piperine (BioPerine®) Pepper Extract 5.0 mg
I know its quite crazy i just put almost everything you shared into this stack, some even have a similar function.
What do you think about this stack in general ? Would you replace/remove/add other ingredients to this stack ? I can add up to 12 ingredients.
Thanks for your help.
Poalo, I’d add a high quality B-Complex supplement because you need the B-Vitamins as cofactors so the others can do their job.