If you feel inadequate, embarrassed, inferior or humiliated. And it prevents you from going out, meeting new people, or generally messes with your quality of life – nootropics can help.
Social anxiety is form of anxiety. And affects at least 13% of people living in the U.S.[i] While the numbers aren’t available, I’m confident this is a world-wide problem.
You are dealing with social anxiety if you do your best to avoid going into any situation where you feel you may be negatively judged or evaluated. Back in the day, they used to call these things ‘phobias’. In this case, it was “social phobia”.
Social anxiety is treated by mainstream medicine in two ways – Cognitive Behavior Therapy or with drugs. You may have tried either or both with limited success.
In this post, you’ll find out why they didn’t succeed in taming your symptoms. And provide you with some natural options that may work better.
Table of Contents
What Causes Social Anxiety
One of the problems with social anxiety is poor self-esteem. And it feels like it’s somehow your fault. That social anxiety is a moral failure. Or could have been caused by a crappy childhood.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Social anxiety is primarily a chemistry imbalance in your brain. And if this balance of neurotransmitters and their systems can be restored, you should be relieved of social anxiety symptoms.
Anxiety is a Neurotransmitter Problem
Your brain is governed by multiple neurotransmitter systems. The most extensive of these are GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid) and glutamate.
The other three neurotransmitter systems – serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine – have also been studied extensively in both normal states, and states of anxiety.[ii]
And we know that each of these neurotransmitters play a role in anxiety because there are prescription drug therapies that affect each one.
But social anxiety is not caused by a deficiency in one neurotransmitter or another. The networks governed by these neurotransmitters are interrelated, have multiple feedback loops, and sport complex receptor structures.[iii]
This is why you may have had little success with your anxiety, and using a prescription SSRI or MAOI. And why nootropics – especially adaptogens – could be your answer. More on that in a minute.
So if you have been led to believe by others that the primary culprit associated with social anxiety are GABA or glutamate. And that Phenibut or Aniracetam are guaranteed to relieve your social anxiety issues. You have not been given the full story about what’s causing your anxiety.
Next we’ll look at each neurotransmitter and its association with social anxiety.
Serotonin
Serotonin plays a fundamental role in regulating your brain states. Including anxiety. And it modulates dopamine and norepinephrine as well.[iv]
There are also several serotonin receptor subtypes. For example, serotonin-1a receptor is both a mediator and inhibitor of serotonin depending on whether it is on the presynaptic or postsynaptic neuron.[v]
And not all serotonin subtype receptors provide anxiolytic effects. A classic example of this is serotonin-2a receptor which provides the psychedelic effects when you use LSD or mescaline.[vi]
But despite all this complexity, it’s true that many people get some relief from anxiety symptoms by using meds that inhibit the reuptake of serotonin using SSRI’s.
If you respond well to SSRI’s but hate the side effects. And are looking for a safe alternative. You should avoid using nootropics like L-Tryptophan or 5-HTP.
Instead, use nootropics that help modulate serotonin and bring it under control. Try Bacopa Monnieri, Ginkgo Biloba, Rhodiola Rosea, or Vitamin D3 with Omega-3s. All have been shown in clinical studies as well as practical user experience to reduce anxiety by keeping serotonin under control.
GABA (Gamma-aminobutyric Acid)
GABA is your main inhibitory neurotransmitter. Increases in GABA using barbiturates or benzodiazepines can have a anxiolytic effect for some people.
Drugs in this class do not directly bind to GABA receptors. Instead, they affect the associated chloride channel. Barbiturates do this by increasing the duration of the channel’s open state. While benzodiazepines increase the frequency of opening.
The big problem with these types of drugs however is tolerance and potentially fatal side effects. And they kill your ability to encode memories.[vii]
So sometimes anticonvulsant drugs like gabapentin are used instead. Which blocks calcium channels. Resulting in a boost of GABA transmission.[viii]
And this is why some of the racetams display anxiolytic activity. Because nootropics like Aniracetam and Oxiracetam affect the ion channels. Somehow increasing the excitability of those neurons and increasing the effectiveness of some neurotransmitters. More on that in the next section.
Dopamine
Dopamine’s role in normal and anxiety activity in your brain is complex. And dopamine pathways may affect social anxiety in several ways.[ix] For example, drugs like Olanzapine inhibit the dopamine D2 receptor and provide anti-anxiety affects.
Dopamine signaling helps promote feelings of self-confidence and self-esteem which helps to reduce anxiety. Which is the reason why some people with social anxiety issues respond well to drugs like Wellbutrin which help boost dopamine.[x]
See the next section for more on nootropics like Folate and L-Theanine which help boost dopamine in your brain.
Norepinephrine
Norepinephrine plays a complex role in anxiety states. And many social anxiety symptoms can be reduced by modulating norepinephrine in your brain.
For example, propranolol (which is classed as a beta-blocker), an antagonist of the beta2-norepinephrine receptor, is used to reduce the rapid heart rate, tremors and quivering voice that you get when you’re about to step on stage in front of an audience.[xi]
Some SNRI’s (serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors) are also effective in quelling social anxiety symptoms.[xii] Drugs like Cymbalta help boost serotonin and norepinephrine activity in your brain.
Several natural nootropic alternatives to beta-blockers are available. Nootropics like magnesium, L-tryptophan and St. John’s wort are used by many to treat social anxiety. More on these beta-blocker alternatives in the next section of this post.
Glutamate
Glutamate is your primary excitatory neurotransmitter. And is involved in every neuronal pathway in your brain and body. Including those that affect social anxiety states.[xiii]
The NMDA receptor is also particularly important for social anxiety disorders. Because it helps mediate learning and memory. Activation of the NMDA receptor triggers protein synthesis. Which strengthens the connection between neurons.[xiv]
This NMDA activity in learning and memory is likely one of the reasons why Cognitive Behavior Therapy is sometimes effective in treating social anxiety. Because you are put into situations that help you ‘unlearn’ certain situations that make you uncomfortable.
But forcing you to walk into a crowded bar and ask for the phone numbers of 50 female strangers. Simply to ‘unlearn’ the social anxiety that keeps you from meeting new people. Seems like cruel and inhumane punishment to me. There has to be better way.
And it turns out there is. Nootropics like Cat’s Claw, many of the racetam’s, L-Theanine, and Noopept all modulate NMDA receptors and glutamate.
Other Neurotransmitters
Several other neurotransmitters play a role in social anxiety. And the associated systems involving fear and anxiety. Including neuropeptides, corticotrophin-releasing factor (CRF) and cannabinoids.
But none of the experimental compounds have translated into FDA-approved drugs. The excuse is the stringent criteria for approval of these treatments.
I’d guess that money plays more of a role than “stringent criteria”.
You can’t patent and charge exorbitant prices for compounds like cannabis which in low doses is a very effective social anxiety treatment.[xv]
And Noopept is based off the endogenous neuropeptide cycloprolylglycine (CPG). Researchers in Moscow found Noopept similar to Piracetam in not only it’s nootropic effect, but also anxiolytic activity.[xvi]
Recommendations of Nootropics for Social Anxiety
If you are currently being treated for social anxiety. Or suspect you may be dealing with undiagnosed anxiety disorder. And are looking for a more natural, safer way to treat your symptoms. Nootropics could be the answer.
And you’re not alone looking for alternatives to drugs that come with a host of side effects. Research in the United States and other counties show that significant numbers of people use ‘alternative medicine’ to treat their problems.
A study in the US with 1035 people showed that more people were using alternative medicine and nootropics to treat social anxiety symptoms. Than for any other health problem. Including back problems, chronic pain, and urinary tract infections.[xvii]
Another meta-analysis of 42 clinical studies was used to determine which was more effective in treating anxiety. They compared Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) with drug treatment.
The meta-analysis concluded that the evidence showed there was little difference in the positive outcomes. Of using CBT or pharmaceuticals.[xviii]
This meta-analysis tells us that if you had a choice between the humiliation of Cognitive Behavior Therapy or nootropics. The outcome would be about the same. So which would you choose?
If your choice is nootropics to treat social anxiety issues, here are some you can try.
Natural Alternatives to Beta Blockers
In the section on norepinephrine we found that prescription beta-blockers are often used to treat anxiety. Some natural alternatives include:
- DHA (Omega-3) – fatty acids make up a significant portion of your brain cell membranes. Low levels of Omega-3’s result in ADHD, anxiety, depression, suicide and an increased risk of Alzheimer’s and dementia.
- Magnesium – lack of adequate magnesium can result in brain fog, anxiety and depression. Plasticity of neuron synapses is affected by the presence of adequate magnesium in brain cells.
- St. John’s wort – has been used for centuries to treat anxiety, depression and stress. St. John’s wort works by preventing the re-uptake of serotonin in your brain. Much like prescription anti-depressants.
A quick note about Vitamin D. Excessive levels of this vitamin can affect the way your body and brain processes calcium. Calcium channels in your brain are implicated in anxiety. You absolutely need adequate Vitamin D levels in your body. Just don’t overdo it.
Alternatives to SSRI’s, MAOI’s and other anti-anxiety drugs
Rather than separate these into how each affects the various neurotransmitters that affect social anxiety. I’m listing them in alphabetical order.
Please do the research on each nootropic before trying it. Especially if you are currently using prescription anti-anxiety drugs.
- Aniracetam – This member of the racetam-family of nootropics works with dopamine D2 and D3 receptors in your brain. And desensitizes AMPA (glutamate) receptors. Aniracetam is one of the most effective antidepressants I’ve ever tried. And its effects on dopamine in your brain can have a profound effect on anxiety symptoms.
- Ashwagandha – This adaptogen has been used for millennia to relieve anxiety, fatigue, restore energy and boost concentration. Clinical studies have shown Ashwagandha to repair and even reverse damage caused in the brain caused by chronic anxiety and stress.
- Bacopa Monnieri – This adaptogen has been used since ancient times to reduce anxiety, depression and stress. It protects your neurons and balances neurotransmitters.
- Cacao – Cacao and dark chocolate (75%+ cacao) stimulates the release of phenylethylamine (PEA) which boosts focus and awareness. And anandamide (the bliss molecule) which helps you feel good. Cacao is a source of tryptophan which is the precursor to serotonin. And theobromine which boosts blood flow, is a stimulant, and may account for chocolate’s aphrodisiac qualities.
- Folate – Vitamin B9 (folate) is used by your brain to make dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin. Folate is involved in gene expression, amino acid synthesis, and myelin synthesis and repair. It’s even involved in cerebral circulation. Powerful anti-anxiety treatment in this B-vitamin.
- Ginkgo Biloba – This tree native to China has been used for thousands of years to boost mental alertness, improve cerebral circulation and for overall brain function. Many have found Ginkgo to be very effective in reducing stress and anxiety. And boosting mood.
- Ginseng – Panax ginseng has been used as a memory booster, improves mood, lowers anxiety levels and boosts stamina and endurance.
- Gotu Kola – Gotu kola is one of the most important herbs in ancient Ayurvedic medicine. This herb helps boost nerve growth factor which can have a profound effect on anxiety. Many report that Gotu kola may be even more effective in reducing anxiety and relieving stress than Ashwagandha.
- Kava – Kava is native to the South Pacific. And the islanders use kava for its sedative effects. Kava can help reduce anxiety and improve mood. Unlike benzodiazepines, kava does not impair cognitive function. In fact, studies show kava may boost cognitive function.
- Lemon Balm – Lemon balm is used for its anti-anxiety effects. Rosmarinic acid, a compound found in lemon balm, inhibits the GABA transaminase enzyme. Which in turn helps maintain adequate levels of GABA in your brain. Resulting in a calming effect.
- Lion’s Mane – Lion’s Mane Mushroom boosts brain nerve growth factor which increases neurogenesis. Lion’s Mane can help improve focus and attention, boost thinking, repair brain cells, help depression and anxiety, and manage other neurological problems like Alzheimer’s, dementia, Parkinson’s and muscular dystrophy.
- L-Theanine – L-Theanine naturally occurs in green and oolong tea. This amino acid is used as a nootropic for anxiety, learning, mood and focus. It works quickly in your brain to increase dopamine and serotonin.
- Phenibut – Phenibut is a GABA agonist and primarily binds to the GABA-b receptor. GABA-a receptor agonists include alcohol and benzodiazepines. Phenibut can have a sedative effect, and has strong anti-anxiety qualities. It can be used to combat depression, improve mood, cognitive function and motivation.
- Phenylalanine – This amino acid is a precursor to the synthesis of tyrosine in your brain. Tyrosine then helps in the formation and utilization of the neurotransmitters dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine and melatonin. Helping to relieve anxiety, and chronic pain. And boost focus and motivation.
- Picamilon – Picamilon is a combination of niacin (Vitamin B3) and GABA. Similar to Phenibut, Picamilon improves memory, concentration, motivation, focus, has strong anti-anxiety properties, and can lower blood pressure.
- Rhodiola Rosea – Rhodiola activates AMPA receptors in your brain. Which decreases depression and stress-related mood swings, reduces fatigue, stimulates energy and alertness and boosts cognition.
- St. John’s wort – This plant has been traditionally used for mood disorders and wound healing. Today it’s used mostly as a treatment for anxiety, depression and stress. St. John’s wort works like prescription SSRI’s by preventing reuptake of serotonin in your brain. But please read the precautions for using this nootropic in the extended article.
- Tryptophan – This amino acid is a precursor to serotonin, melatonin and niacin (Vitamin B3) in your brain. L-Tryptophan is used to treat anxiety, ADHD, depression, insomnia, memory loss, pain and eating disorders.
- Vitamin B6 – Vitamin B6 helps your brain make serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin. The activated form of Vitamin B6 called P-5-P is particularly effective in boosting serotonin and GABA in your brain. And providing potent anti-anxiety effects.
- Vitamin B12 – This B-vitamin plays a key role in the efficient conversion of carbohydrates to glucose – your cell’s source of fuel. It also helps your body convert fatty acids into energy. Supplementing with Vitamin B12 can help lower anxiety, and elevate alertness, cognition, energy, vision, elevate mood and relieve insomnia. No more mood swings!
Social Anxiety Eliminated
Nootropics are a strong alternative to many anti-anxiety medications currently prescribed by doctors. And promoted by the Big Pharmaceutical companies.
But a very strong word of caution – if you are currently using any prescription anti-anxiety or antidepressant medications. Or any medications for that matter. Research each nootropic including side effects and prescription drug interactions before using them.
You can eliminate social anxiety once-and-for-all with nootropics. If you do your research. And are willing to experiment until you find the one or two that is right for you.
[i] Kessler R.C., McGonagle K.A., Zhao S., Nelson C.B., Hughes M., Eshleman S., Wittchen H.U., Kendler K.S. “Lifetime and 12-month prevalence of DSM-III-R psychiatric disorders in the United States. Results from the National Comorbidity Survey.” Archives of General Psychiatry. 1994 Jan;51(1):8-19. (source)
[ii] Charney D.S. “Neuroanatomical circuits modulating fear and anxiety behaviors.” Acta Psychiatrica Scandinavica: Supplement. 2003;(417):38-50. (source)
[iii] Pytliak M1, Vargová V, Mechírová V, Felšöci M. “Serotonin receptors - from molecular biology to clinical applications.” Physiological Research. 2011;60(1):15-25. (source)
[iv] Heninger G.R., Charney D.S. “Monoamine receptor systems and anxiety disorders.” Psychiatric Clinics of North America. 1988 Jun;11(2):309-26. (source)
[v] Harvey B.H., Naciti C., Brand L., Stein D.J. “Endocrine, cognitive and hippocampal/cortical 5HT 1A/2A receptor changes evoked by a time-dependent sensitisation (TDS) stress model in rats.” Brain Research. 2003 Sep 5; 983(1-2):97-107. (source)
[vi] Burris K.D., Sanders-Bush E. “Unsurmountable antagonism of brain 5-hydroxytryptamine2 receptors by (+)-lysergic acid diethylamide and bromo-lysergic acid diethylamide.” Molecular Pharmacology. 1992 Nov; 42(5):826-30. (source)
[vii] Roy-Byrne P.P., Sullivan M.D., Cowley D.S., Ries R.K. “Adjunctive treatment of benzodiazepine discontinuation syndromes: a review.” Journal of Psychiatric Research. 1993; 27 Suppl 1():143-53. (source)
[viii] Pollack M.H., Matthews J., Scott E.L. “Gabapentin as a potential treatment for anxiety disorders.” American Journal of Psychiatry. 1998 Jul; 155(7):992-3. (source)
[ix] de la Mora M.P., Gallegos-Cari A., Arizmendi-García Y., Marcellino D., Fuxe K. “Role of dopamine receptor mechanisms in the amygdaloid modulation of fear and anxiety: Structural and functional analysis.” Progress in Neurobiology. 2010 Feb 9; 90(2):198-216. (source)
[x] Bystritsky A., Kerwin L., Feusner J.D., Vapnik T. “A pilot controlled trial of bupropion XL versus escitalopram in generalized anxiety disorder.” Psychopharmacology Bulletin. 2008; 41(1):46-51. (source)
[xi] Davidson J.R., Foa E.B., Connor K.M., Churchill L.E. “Hyperhidrosis in social anxiety disorder.” Progress in Neuropsychopharmacology and Biological Psychiatry. 2002 Dec; 26(7-8):1327-31. (source)
[xii] Mancini M., Perna G., Rossi A., Petralia A. “Use of duloxetine in patients with an anxiety disorder, or with comorbid anxiety and major depressive disorder: a review of the literature.” Expert Opinion in Pharmacotherapy. 2010 May;11(7):1167-81. (source)
[xiii] Carobrez A.P., Teixeira K.V., Graeff F.G. “Modulation of defensive behavior by periaqueductal gray NMDA/glycine-B receptor.” Neuroscience of Biobehavioral Review. 2001 Dec; 25(7-8):697-709. (source)
[xiv] Myers K.M., Carlezon W.A. Jr., Davis M. “Glutamate receptors in extinction and extinction-based therapies for psychiatric illness.” Neuropsychopharmacology. 2011 Jan;36(1):274-93 (source)
[xv] Moreira F.A., Wotjak C.T. “Cannabinoids and anxiety.” Current Top Behavioral Neuroscience. 2010;2:429-50. (source)
[xvi] Gudasheva T.A., Konstantinopol’skii M.A., Ostrovskaya R.U., Seredenin S.B. “Anxiolytic activity of endogenous nootropic dipeptide cycloprolylglycine in elevated plus-maze test.” Bulletin of Experimental Biology and Medicine. 2001 May;131(5):464-6. (source)
[xvii] Astin J.A. “Why patients use alternative medicine: results of a national study.” JAMA. 1998 May 20;279(19):1548-53. (source)
[xviii] Roshanaei-Moghaddam B., Pauly M.C., Atkins D.C., Baldwin S.A., Stein M.B., Roy-Byrne P. “Relative effects of CBT and pharmacotherapy in depression versus anxiety: is medication somewhat better for depression, and CBT somewhat better for anxiety?” Depression and Anxiety. 2011 Jul;28(7):560-7 (source)
Hi David
first of all im glad I found you on YouTube this is a goldmine of help to many who have social anxiety like myself, I want to know your opinion on which of the nootropics you listed can I take everyday year round without having to cycle them to avoid withdrawals. or can I stack them all together?
Aniracetam
Ashwagandha
Bacopa Monnieri
Folate
Ginkgo Biloba
Ginseng
Gotu Kola
Kava
Lemon Balm
Lion’s Mane Mushroom
L-Theanine
Phenylalanine
Picamilon
Rhodiola Rosea
St. John’s wort
Tryptophan
Vitamin B6
Vitamin B12
Danny, the only supplement on your list that some cycle is Aniracetam. But abruptly quitting Aniracetam should not be a problem.
You may experience withdrawal symptoms after long-term use of L-Tryptophan.
Hi David,
Thank you for your gracious work.
I am just learning about nootropics and waiting for a delivery of MLPro, so that is first. But I have a good selection of Bulk Supplement powders and took 1g GABA and got a flush reaction. What does that indicate?
Kevin, that is a fairly common reaction reported by bodybuilders who use very high doses of GABA. Sounds like you just took too much. Cut your dose in half and see if that helps.
Sorry i couldnt reply to the other post:
You said:
“Paolo, thanks for sharing that study. It leads to other studies that show Hawthorne Berry as effective as or better than prescription beta-blockers in treating heart disease and failure. But does not act as a beta-blocker: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15353901/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18490196/. I don’t think they ever figured out why it works. It just does.”
Sorry i think i dont understand it exactly. To clarify if Hawthorne Berry dont act like a real beta blocker (blocks β1 and β2-adrenergic receptor). We can assume it wont work to reduce symptoms triggered by social anxiety like tremors/trembling, hearth race, brain fog, voice…
Because we said those symptoms are triggered by the fight and flight response trough epinephrine and norepinephrine.
So if Hawthorne works different then blocking epinephrine and norepinephrine it does mean it wont work in our case to reduce social anxiety symptoms (trembling…) true ?
Paolo, that may be true. In this case, the only way to find out is to try Hawthorne Berry and see if it helps.
Hi David,
ok thanks for clarification.
So the best alternatives for beta blocker (propranolol) keep being Taurine, DHA, Magnesium ?
Is there anything other powerful i could try beside Lithium ororate (cant get that) ?
I do take all of the others daylie but they feel a lot less powerful like some herbs. Thats very unlucky there does not exist something to direct block epinephrine like real beta blocker.
Paolo, I am not aware of any natural supplement that works specifically like a “beta blocker”. Nothing that will “block” norepinephrine. You don’t want to block all norepinephrine. Because if you did you wouldn’t be able to function.
Hi David,
First of all thank you for all the information you provide on nootropics. I haven’t found the right combination that works for me yet but I am truly grateful that you share your knowledge with the rest of us. I myself have some form of social anxiety. In stressful situations (which for me are social situations) I start sweating and blushing really easily. I think I got some relief with a mao inhibitor but when I was taking it for a longer period (after about 6 months) it drastically increased my anxiety. And there is a worleide shortage going on as well.
Now I take a daily mix of magnesium, l-theanine, fish oil, l-tyrosine and sometimes cdp choline.
I am now experimenting with aniracetam and sulbutiamine. However when taking about 300-500 mg of aniracetam it makes me kind of sleepy and gives me a weird feeling in my head. Sulbutiamine is a bit more stimulating for me in the beginning and after the initial effect I do get a calm almost satisfied feeling from it. Any thoughts on why aniracetam makes me feel this way?
Fay are you using a choline supplement with Aniracetam? Because it promotes the use of acetylcholine in your brain by 200 – 300%. So you need to ensure that acetylcholine is present for Aniracetam to work with or you’ll experience the symptoms you describe. Or even a headache.
And if you use an MAOI long-term but either don’t have enough dopamine or norepinephrine you’ll have problems. Or if you push dopamine too high you suppress serotonin. Have you tried using L-Tyrosine? or L-Tryptophan for serotonin?
I just published another piece on anxiety that you may find helpful. Because it describes other options for you to try. You’ll find that here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-anxiety/
Sorry Moo i jumped into your conversation, sometimes i cant resist my impulses. Thanks David sorry i couldnt reply to your asnwer, so i need to create a new post.
The tremors/shaking hands are caused by my social anxiety in stress situation, yes the panic attacks are caused because of overwhelming overthinking.
I tried a few things, on my current stack it seems like NALT amplifys those (according seller).
Do lithium orotate help to handle those tremors aswell or do it help with panic attacks only ? I have read daylie usage can lead to deadly overdose, is that true ?
May Magnesium Glycinate can help with my tremors ? There is not a lot more inside the “beta blocker” Paragraph beside DHA i could try (and both i just ordered today).
Its a pain im not able to get this tremors rid off. Its aswell hard to test Nootropics, because of nocebo placebo. Rigth after the beginning with my nootropics i had a few very good days for months.
Paolo, one beta blocker that I have not reviewed is Hawthorne Berry which comes up time and again in clinical studies for this purpose: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3989080/
Magnesium Glycinate may help as long as you keep your dose at 400 mg per day or less.
Lithium Orotate may help with both. Not sure where you came up with the “deadly overdose” part because at 5 mg of elemental lithium, it’s so low it doesn’t even show up on blood tests.
And BTW, the National Institute of Health points out that tremors can be caused by “anxiety or panic”. https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Tremor-Fact-Sheet
Thanks for your answer.
Hawthorne Berry looks interesting.
Why exactly Magnesium Glycinate work just below 400 mg (does it stops working after) ? Do we talk about elemental Magnesium ? Because the capsules i have seen are all around 650mg Magnesium Glycinate and around 100-125mg elemental Magnesium.
I have read from the “deadly overdose” on reddit. One person told that his wife took Lithium Orotate at lower dose like 5mg. His doctor told her to check levels in blood and she was close to a risky high overdose. Some other sites aswell notice to keep the blood values in check if lithium Orotate is used to dont risk an overdose. But its hard to say if the women hit the overdose by wrong medication, wrong use, bad supplier.
But unluckily im not able to get it easily, so i cant use it tough.
Yeah for sure my tremors are caused by my social anxiety. I already have some light tremors outside of stress situations. But those are aswell from my anxiety – stress. When hitting stress situations it gets much much worse. I cant use my hands then correctly witouth looking like a drug addict.
Paolo, your body can only use so much magnesium and it’ll excrete the magnesium it cannot use. There’s no point in over-dosing this supplement just like there is no point in over-dosing any supplement. But a lot of magnesium supplements are cheap forms that our body cannot use. If you are particularly sensitive to this kind of thing something other than the natural, chelated version could cause real problems.
I’ve taken too much magnesium before and tremors were the result.
And please don’t believe everything you ‘read’. Including what I say or write. Always do your own research to verify what people are saying is true. I cannot imagine someone having issues with 5 mg of lithium. It simply doesn’t make sense. Depression and mania is treated with 800 and 900 mg of lithium carbonate. So 5 mg?
Tremors are a symptom of chronic anxiety as well. You know your own body better than anyone. It’s wise to listen to it because it tells you what it needs to thrive.
Ok, thanks David for your help all the time. Your the only one out there really trying to help others, your a good person.
We talk about 400mg elemental magnesium here, true ? I took around 1000mg magnesium glycinate (200 mg elemental magnesium) just now and it did feel pretty good so far.
Im a very very skeptical person, dont worry. But you convinced me now to try out GABA (i talked about my deficiency on your GABA post), i still have mixed feeling about that, but we will see ;D.
Im just not able to find useful informations about Hawthorne Berry. May you can help me out there ?
Is Hawthorne Berry able to remove physical symptoms caused by social anxiety/anxiety ?
Do that include all physical symptoms aswell like tremors/shaking or only rapid hearth race and blood pressure ?
What do you think would be a good dosage to try ? (so i could buy the right one).
At wich time should i take it and how long does it work ?
Can i use Hawthorne Berry long term ?
How strong is it compared to prescription beta blockers ? (like 1/2 or 3/4 to get an idea)
I probably dont need “beta blockers” if i would be able to fix my gaba deficiency but i think that will be hard mission i will work a long time. Having something nice to fight my tremors/shaking would be very helpful. Ashwagandha wasnt as bad, but a day witouth amplified my symptoms. Feeled like all suppressed symtoms came back at once.
Paolo, I still need to do a review of Hawthorne Berry if there’s enough clinical evidence that it’s proven effective. But you look at user reviews and they’re pretty convincing that it’s effective. As for long-term, here’s a study with 2691 patients who used if for 24 months with good success: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1016/j.ejheart.2008.10.004. They used WS® 1442 extract 900 mg / day.
David, we shortly talked about Hawthorn berry.
You shared me a link about a study wich classified Hawthorn berry as beta blocker.
But even tough i still cant find any information about its work as beta blocker on other studies they say Hawthorn berry does not involve β-adrenergic receptor blockade but have a positive effect on lowering blood pressure. While a real beta blocker blocks β1 and β2-adrenergic receptor like propranolol.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249900/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16487691/
This studies seem to be old. What do you think about it ? May they came to a new conclusion about Hawthorne berry and beta blocker ?
Paolo, thanks for sharing that study. It leads to other studies that show Hawthorne Berry as effective as or better than prescription beta-blockers in treating heart disease and failure. But does not act as a beta-blocker: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15353901/ and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18490196/. I don’t think they ever figured out why it works. It just does.
Hi David,
I surfer from anxiety in a few different forms. Started around 7 years ago when I had a panic attack at work for no apparent reason, and since then I have work place anxiety; such as in situations where I have to give presentations, public speaking, training large groups, or working with people I don’t know very well. I just crumble to a stuttering mess, forget everything I know, feel like I’m going to cry and generally fear I’m going to have another panic attack. I rarely get social anxiety with informal settings, but it does come sometimes.
I get anxiety in situations where I know I may be uncomfortable or in an emotional situation. For example at work last week somebody left the company and they said goodbye in front of the staff and I felt like I was going to cry (even though I don’t know them!) and I almost had a panic attack.
I sometimes get generalized anxiety, where I’ll be doing something normal like driving a car, watching TV and suddenly just get really anxious about no specific thing and feel like I’m going to have a panic attack.
My doctor prescribes me Xanax and it really works wonders, I can stand in front of big crowd and present (still get a bit sweaty and nervous, but no feelings of panic), but I don’t really like the side effects – sleepiness, addiction and sometimes I feel too nonchalant about things.
I did try Lexapro, but it made me far to high, alert and still anxious. Dropped to a lower dose and It felt like I had the flu all the time, made me depressed and didn’t help with the anxiety.
So I’m looking for a more natural solution, and with those two things in mind, where would be the best place to start? Your post is great, but I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed with info.
In your May reply to Paolo you advise a basic approach to figure out what’s causing the anxiety. However, I was left a bit confused as you mention Alpha GPC, CDP-Choline, acetylcholine and L-Tyrosine, but these aren’t actually mentioned in the main article.
I tried taking 400mg of magnesium, alongside 1000mg of calcium and 20mcg of Vitamin D3 for 6 months or so, but don’t think I really saw any effect from that.
Thanks,
Moo
Moo, I need to re-write at least part of this post and include using the trial and error method for isolating which neurotransmitter may be causing you problems.
But you’re a couple steps closer to finding a solution because you said Xanax works for you. Xanax is a benzo which works in your brain by binding to the GABAa receptor. This means you likely have problems with GABA.
I’d start by using a GABA 500 – 750 mg supplement before bed and see if it helps.
Then do a search of Nootropics Expert using the search function top right for the keyword “Xanax” and another search for “Alprazolam”. And see what turns up. You’ll get search results listing a few nootropic supplements where somewhere in my review “Xanax” will be mentioned. Likely because either a clinical study compared that nootropic to Xanax in a study. Or someone commented that they found that nootropic worked as well as Xanax.
Hi David,
Thanks for the reply.
Yes after leaving the comment I read through all the other comments on this page and saw your advice about finding nootropics that effect the same things as any successful medication.
I also found this quiz which tries to identify which neurotransmitters you may be deficient in, my results also suggest GABA deficiency. (Nootropics Expert edit: Dr. Braverman’s website and the author of “The Edge Effect”)
So yes, I ordered some 500mb GABA and will try that.
I also ordered DHA, Vitamin B complex and Magnesium based on your other comments on creating a base stack.
Thanks for your help and info.
Moo, good find because it was Dr. Braverman’s book “The Edge Effect” (https://amzn.to/3iYygJR) where I learned that I was likely deficient in GABA. And sure enough, 750 mg GABA before bed and I felt better the next day. And it was the inspiration for my method of testing neurotransmitters with each precursor to figure out what you might be low in. Thanks for the reminder sir!
According the Bravermantest i need suppliment for all Neurotransmitter oO.
1A Total Number of True Responses – DOPAMINE Nature: 26
2A Total Number of True Responses – ACETYLCHOLINE Nature: 25
3A Total Number of True Responses – GABA Nature: 19
4A Total Number of True Responses – SEROTONIN Nature: 22
You are DOPAMINE Dominant.
Deficiency Results Summary
1B Total Number of True Responses – DOPAMINE Deficiency: 15
2B Total Number of True Responses – ACETYLCHOLINE Deficiency: 18
3B Total Number of True Responses – GABA Deficiency: 29
4B Total Number of True Responses – SEROTONIN Deficiency: 21
(major deficit above 15)
I had a strong fallback, i tryed a lot of things now. I cant handle my tremors – panic attack maybe i should try soemthing like beta blocker alternatives. I was already using Tryptophan, maybe i add Magnesium ? Or go for St. Wort John’s.
Paolo, be careful with St. John’s wort especially if you’re using any prescription meds.
I think you may be overthinking this and overwhelming yourself to the point of panic attacks. Lithium Orotate helps with panic attacks BTW.
If you are dopamine dominant and deficient in serotonin it helps to bring them back into balance. And you do that by avoiding anything that boosts dopamine and use L-Tryptophan instead to raise serotonin.
Are the tremors caused by any of the supplements you are using? Or has this been a problem before you started using supplements?
Dear David.
This site is one of the best I’ve seen as far as nootropics are concerned. Thanks very much for your time in putting this together.
My anxiety is largely physical, which then causes the psychological to also rise. I have found propranolol to help very much with physical anxiety. Which nootropic would you recommend which can replace propranolol?
I am currently taking ashwaghanda as I’ve read about it’s ability to reduce the minds fight or flight affect, this is my main struggle.
Thank you very much.
Deen, Propranolol is a beta blocker. And the only natural true beta blocker that I’m aware of is Hawthorne Berry.
See “Table 1” in this clinical review: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3989080/ which includes a list of supplements that mimic the action of pharmaceuticals like Diuretics, Calcium-Channel Blockers, Beta Blockers, Angiotensin-Converting Enzyme Inhibitors, Central Alpha Agonists, Angiotensin-Receptor Blockers, and Direct Vasodilators.
Hi David,
I love your approach of addressing anxiety/depression by searching for its root
cause i.e. the neurotransmitter/s that are responsible for it. You recommend to do this by using
the direct precursors such as CDP-Choline for acetylcholine, L-Tyrosine for dopamine and
norepinephrine and L-Tryptophan for serotonin.
Apart from the above mentioned direct precursors and their respective neurotransmitters, I
couldn’t find information related to that of GABA and glutamate or any other (if I have
missed any). Can you please mention those missed? I would be greatful for your response.
Owais, for GABA you would use a GABA supplement, and for glutamate you’d use L-Glutamine.
Thanks again for your great work and site David.
I was trying L-Theanine 500mg, Ashwaganda 1000mg, Phosphatidylserine 200mg, Tryptophan 1000mg for a month + now (post below), even tough the products i bought might where not best quality i can feel a good improvement. I still have a few symptoms tremors and others as described but quite weaker. Im far away form hearth racing/ panic attacks then before and on some days im feeling close to normal and most days better then before. I found a good store where i can make my own stack for an affordable price with good quality ingredients.
So i decided may to extend my stack with other suppliments provided by your article before im running out of my current stack.
Daylie first half morning second half early afternoon:
L-Theanine 250.0 mg
KSM-66® Ashwagandha 450.0 mg
Synapsa™ Bacopa Monnieri 300.0 mg
Lemon Balm Extract 4:1 250.0 mg
Rhodiola Rosea 3R/1S 200.0 mg
Phosphatidylserine 50% 320.0 mg
N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) 350.0 mg
Taurine 350.0 mg / or Lions Mane Mushroom 350mg
Vitamin B6 (P5P) 40.0 mg
Vitamin B12 (Methylcobalamin) 1% 20.0 mg -> (0,2mg)
Vitamin D3 0.25% 40.0 mg ~4000 IU
Piperine (BioPerine®) Pepper Extract 5.0 mg
I know its quite crazy i just put almost everything you shared into this stack, some even have a similar function.
What do you think about this stack in general ? Would you replace/remove/add other ingredients to this stack ? I can add up to 12 ingredients.
Thanks for your help.
Just saw this. Looks like you have it covered. Don’t expect perfect results right away. Some of the nootropics in your stack will take awhile to provide their full benefit if you’re dosing everyday. Especially the adaptogens.
Thanks, thats absolutely no problem if the adaptgens take some time to work properly. There where a lot other nootropics i would have added to my stack but unluckily there was no more place.
Im not sure if one of those would have been better:
Lions mane / Gotu Kola / Magnesium Glycinate / Alpha gpc / Ginkgo Biloba / Inositol / 5Htp / ALCAR / DHA / NAC /Uridine Monophosphate / Valerian / B1(not sulbutiamine)/ B3 / B5 …
especially Gotu Kola or Lions mane i was very interested because of the nerve growth factor, but i need to replace them with one above and id like to stay below 2600 mg overall(4 capsule, 2 morning, 2 early afternoon; else i have 5 -> cant replace it well with b vitamins and use a B-complex instead).
With this stack furthermore i tried to force gaba working good. Lemon Balm as Transaminase Inhibition, Taurine(passion flower is not available) as weak Gaba Agonism, Ashwagandha as positive allosteric modulator and others like L-Theanine to boost Gaba aswell. Im not sure if this will work perfectly as im thinking.
Ashwagandha, Bacopa and Phosphatidylserine to keep Cortisol in check -> stress/panic attacks.
Vitamin D is here because i had a big deficiency (fixed already) and if i take this one daylie it goes side by side to keep VitD levels normal.
The others im not sure, but i tought the B Vitamins (folate isnt available) are really necessary to synergie well.
Rhodiola Rosea cause many advised this as stack combination to ashwagandha and L-Theanine.
And a bit of NALT to higher self estem and mood, but i got already others and piperine wich boost dopamine so the low dosage maybe is fine.
Piperine to boost everything a bit and let me use quitly lower dosages.
I still take daylie L-Tryptophan at night, i have one for 4-5 months, to keep Norepinephrine in check.
No clue if i should maybe replace Rhodiola Rosea with Gotu Kola or anything else or maybe even with something else.
Its really not easy to create a good stack, but im trying my best.
Paolo, the key to success with nootropics is trying them until you find something that works. Your goal is to feel better I think. So don’t overthink this. It sounds like you’ve done your research. Keep on experimenting until you find a stack that works for you. Only you can know what that stack is.
Thanks again (0,2mg)
Vitamin D3 0.25% 40.0 mg ~4000 IU
Piperine (BioPerine®) Pepper Extract 5.0 mg
I know its quite crazy i just put almost everything you shared into this stack, some even have a similar function.
What do you think about this stack in general ? Would you replace/remove/add other ingredients to this stack ? I can add up to 12 ingredients.
Thanks for your help.
Poalo, I’d add a high quality B-Complex supplement because you need the B-Vitamins as cofactors so the others can do their job.
Hi David,
thanks a lot for your site.
I suffer just a very long time under Social Anxiety and lost many years of my life. Im trying to solve this problem for a while but all i tried did not work as great. Many things you listed i hear the first time so i guess may now i got on the correct way.
Im bit poor and cant try all of them. My main problems are panic attack under pressure like when going into Inn for meal, go to bank… Im having strong tremors, heart racing and loosing voice while this panic attacks and tremor gets much stronger when i notice people see it or look at me.
I read your article a few times but im not sure wich exactly is correct for me so i tought i try those few things:
l-theanine, L-Tryptophan, Phenibut, Aniracetam, Ashwagandha/St. John’s wort
May you please can tell me if those are good in combination or overall ? Thanks a lot David.
Paolo, I recommend a much more basic approach until you figure out what’s causing your anxiety. If it’s a neurotransmitter problem like explained in this post it’s better to figure out which one is causing the problem.
And you do that by going through them one at a time until you find something that makes you feel better.
So you start with Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline to raise acetylcholine for 2 – 3 days. If that does nothing then try L-Tyrosine for dopamine and norepinephrine for 2 – 3 days. If that does nothing then try L-Tryptophan for serotonin for 2 – 3 days. Etc.
Each of these neurotransmitters are listed at the top of this post in the Table of Contents. Then each section of this post tells you what will help that neurotransmitter.
Avoid starting with things like L-Theanine, Phenibut, Aniracetam, Ashwagandha or St. John’s wort because while each of these has some effect on individual neurotransmitters, they do not contribute to making more of each. Only the direct precursors do that like I mentioned 2 paragraphs above.
If you try the stack you suggested and something goes wrong, you won’t know why. It’s better to take this slow and one at a time until you have a better idea on what your problem is. That’s when you can start introducing some of the nootropics you mentioned.
Hi David thanks a lot you spent your free time to answer me i appreciate a lot.
Unluckily im poor and cant spent more then ~50€ for my stock. If im trying now all 4 things you listed (inclusive glutamate may ?) i dont have enough money to buy me something else, aswell i couldnt find “Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline”.
Because of that i read a lot through everything in the past days and tried to understand all, how it works wich isnt as easy.
Im not a very happy but aswell not very depressiv person, i think my main problem is when i get in focus from multiple persons or single persons where it matters a lot, my fear triggers my symptoms. So my guess i should mainly try to desensitization glutamate and care there is enough gaba there.
Unluckily i cant get Phenibut, Picamilon, Aniracetam at all in Italy oof, wich i was interested a lot because of there strength.
In the end i came to this very basic stack:
-Phosphatidylserine reducing cortisol from bad mindflow (wich i have a lot)
-Ashwagandha and L-Theanine (i know they are quit similar but i think in combination they can closely reach Aniracetam/Phenibut in terms of regulating glutamate aswell boosting other neurotransmitters)
-L-Tryptophan to overall get enough base to let everything work well. (aswell i have problems to get asleep where melatonin helped me alot wich is a good sideeffect of tryptophan)
Im sorry i cant afford and test your recommandation because of money and availabiliy. I hope my stack can work tough. Ashwagandha and L-Theanine seems to be pretty basic to help at all scenarios because of there calming and boosting skills for all neurotransmitterl so i tought it cant be as bad for the beginning, Phosphatidylserine is very special in my case because i have a lot bad experiences/situations to work on.
If i forgot something or did a mistake please tell me. May i can afford me another thing in the next months to complete my stack.
Paolo, Alpha GPC and CDP-Choline (Citicoline) are the most effective ways to increase acetylcholine because you don’t have to use as much compared to some other choline supplements. But you can also use Choline Bitartrate or Choline Citrate. You just need to use higher doses for them to be effective.
Is it possible to get GABA where you are? That’s one way to keep glutamate in check.
Phosphatidylserine is great choice because it can be such an effective nootropic.
Don’t worry about not being able to get Phenibut or Picamilon because I don’t think them necessary to do what you’re trying to do. Same with Aniracetam in your case.
One thing you’re not addressing is dopamine. Have you thought of trying L-Tyrosine to raise dopamine?
Thanks again for you help <3.
Oh Choline Bitartrate would have been available.
Gaba aswell available.
Yeah Phenibut i really liked to try, i would have used it on special cases like going for bank etc. Aswell Aniracetam sound very nice but ok. Maybe i can get it from other sites, but i read that it happened customs office catch packages in my country with Phenibut.
L-Tyrosine was already in the cart but i replaced it with Phosphatidylserine. I tought if im using L-Tryptophan wich modulate Dopamine im already on a good way, but maybe im wrong with this aswell i get Tryptophan from nuts already (im a peanut butter lover, over 3-4 Years all day i dont leave the house witouth, but according calculations its about 40mg tryptophan).
So in your opinion it would have been better using Gaba instead of one of the other Nootropics i have bought ?
In wich order it would be advisable to complete my stack for the future ?
Paolo, once again I go back to my original recommendation and that is to test each neurotransmitter with the appropriate precursor. That is the only way to find out what is causing your anxiety.
If peanut butter provided an adequate supply of L-Tryptophan and your problem was with serotonin then problem solved. But that doesn’t sound like that’s the case.
Hi David,
Thank you so much for providing so much useful information about the topic.
I have been struggling with social anxiety/shyness and agoraphobia for a while. The social anxiety (main issue) usually gets triggered while being in groups or with people I’m not close with, and often occurs before, during and after interactions.
I have been taking 117mg magnesium biglycinate (mixed with 33mg magnesium oxide and 30mg l-laurine) every morning for about a month. While i’m not sure if it’s helping the SA, I believe it’s helped reduce generalized anxiety and muscle cramps at night. I have been taking magnesium in the morning to calm my nerves throughout the day. Is it important to take it at night, and is the dosage high enough?
I also noticed feeling calm a few minutes after drinking jasmine green tea, but have been avoiding it due to caffeine. I’m not sure if it was the l-theanine or jasmine that might’ve helped.
I haven’t experimented with many nootropics for SA, do you have any recommendations to try? How long should I take them before seeing results? I also have ibs which gets triggered by anxiety, are there any supplements that help both (eg how do you feel about probiotics)? Or is it better to tackle SA with nootropics, and physical problems will go away?
Thank you!
Rita, the only way to find out if you anxiety is caused by a neurotransmitter problem is to experiment with the precursor for each as described in the above post. But you need to try them one at a time to see which is causing you a problem. You’ll know within a couple of hours if one works.
Higher doses of magnesium should be taken at night because it helps you sleep. Magnesium affects the GABAa receptor just like Ambien.
Your gut is connected to your brain. And when things go wrong with your microbiome you’ll have problems included depression and/or anxiety. You best bet is using a quality Prebiotic which is food for your existing gut bacteria. See this one for more: https://nootropicsexpert.com/performance-lab-prebiotic-review/
My anxiety causes fast heart rate as my main symptom I also get dry mouth, shaking legs..I was on 5mg of bisoprolol and 20mg of citalopram but I’ve recently started taking Whole food B Vitamin complex and benfotamine 50-100mg per day and I’ve been able to cut down from 5mg bisoprolol to 2.5mg but I’ve noticed I’m getting low blood pressure around 105/65 but sometimes down to the 90s I was wondering if the b vitamins could be causing this to go lower? And also should I increase my benfotamine to get better affect where I might be able to come off bisoprolol all together. thanks
Lee, it is unlikely that increasing your dose of benfotiamine will help much. And some would envy that blood pressure. But only you and your doctor know if it is safe for you.
It sounds like you are making progress and it may take time to get to where you want to go. What’s taken decades to get you here will not take decades to fix. But it’ll take time for your body and brain to heal.
I suggest learning the “mechanism of action” for both of those drugs. And then finding natural nootropics that do the same thing.
Due to everything going on right now, I am having massive anxiety, and even a few panic attacks. Are there any supplements that are safe and effective to take on occasion when it gets really bad? I was considering Ashwaganda, but I take levoxyl for hypothyroidism. Thanks for any advice!
Kelly, for panic attacks you can try Lithium Orotate: https://nootropicsexpert.com/lithium-orotate/.
But nootropics are not like prescription antianxiety meds where you can simply swallow a tablet “when it gets really bad”. And expect to get instant results. If you’ve read this post from top to bottom and understand what you’re reading, you’ll know that you need to start experimenting to find out what is at the root of your anxiety.
I’ve provided plenty of examples for each neurotransmitter for you to test. But you need to go through them one at a time until you figure out what’s causing your anxiety.
Ashwagandha is a very powerful supplement for taming anxiety. But it doesn’t work for everyone. If you’ve a problem with GABA or excess cortisol it may work for you. But if it’s something else causing your anxiety it will not provide any benefit. But if you are going to try it you must be careful because it does affect thyroid function. And could mess with how your Thyroid meds work.
It is due to all of the craziness going on right now with COVID 19. I’m not usually a highly anxious person.
I appreciate your concern Kelly. But that’s not how the human body works.
Events or situations may trigger an anxiety response. But it manifests in your body in a chemical way. It could be excess cortisol which affects your body and how it functions. And has a very powerful effect on how your brain functions as well. Or it could be a neurotransmitter imbalance triggered by your response to stress.
I’m going through exactly the same circumstances as you are. And am perfectly calm with a quiet mind. But I only got here because I was willing to put in the work necessary.
If you are willing to go through the steps needed to discover what’s at the heart of your anxiety can you begin to get well. Only then can you know what’s needed to straighten things out. And the post above can help you get there.
Thanks, I understand what you are saying. I think for now, I am going to add l-tryptophan to my magnesium and tart cherry in the evening. I also may try some full spectrum CBD oil. Once my levels settle, I will start experimenting with the above suggestions. Thank you again!
Amazing work you are doing, so much gratitude for all this info.
Do you use an app for taking your supplements?
I get confused when to take what and if I did take it already or not.
I’m taking lots of supplements and sometimes is hard to keep track.
Thanks again!
Adrian, it can get overwhelming with so much information available. The only thing I use when making a decision on what to use in my nootropic stack is research and how I want to feel.
As for dosage and timing I suggest you decide what you are going to use first. Then check each individual review for each supplement which includes recommended dosage and timing during the day.
Once you have that information decide if you need to take your supplements once, twice or three times per day. Timing would be morning, noon and later in the afternoon for supplements you are using during the day.
Hi David,do you have any experience with Zembrin-Sceletium Tortuosum for anxiety problems? BR
Olivera, I have not done the research on Kanna nor have I tried it. It’s not a popular nootropic here in the USA and I haven’t spoken with anyone who has ever used it. Have you tried it for anxiety?
Hi David,I ordered Zembrin for my son who is 24 year old and has OCD.I will try to give to him in order to help to him with social anxiety,intruisive thoughts and comulsions,because Prozak didn’t help him.BR Olivera
Olivera, let us know how Zembrin works for your son please.
Thanks David
Hi David,
My biggest problem is social anxiety and at the moment it’s not too bad, but I still feel uncomfortable in social situations. When I’m talking with strangers it’s hard for me to breath and I just want to do whatever I have to do and leave that place a.s.a.p.
I’m taking these nootropics at the moment:
B Complex, methylcobalamin, folate (in the morning)
DHA 1000mg (in the morning)
Performance Lab Whole-Food Multi (2 caps in the morning)
M.L.P. (2 caps in the morning)
Ashwaganda (6g dry root, in the morning)
Panax Korean Ginseng (500mg in the morning and 500mg in the afternoon)
L-Theanine (500mg in the morning and 500mg in the afternoon).
Magnesium L-Threonate (at night), I take 2 caps. (3 caps = 2,000mg)
GABA (500mg at night)
With unrefined coconut oil.
I’m also taking tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) Nortriptyline (Allegron) 100mg and Clozopin 200mg (at night)
The best nootropic that works for my social anxiety is L-Theanine.
David I would like to ask you, which of this four nootropics are the best for social anxiety?
1 Citicoline
2 Lion’s Mane Mushroom
3 Phosphtidylserine
4 Maritime Pine Bark Extract
Thank you David for your help
Mick
Mick, try Citicoline and DHA and see if that helps you.
OK David I will try it
Thank You for your help.
Hi David
Thank You for consultation that we had, it was very informative.
The nootropics that you recommended for me to try for social anxiety are:
Gaba
1. Oat Straw
Gotu Kola
Panax Ginseng
Holy Basil extract
2. Ashwagandha
3. Bacopa Monnieri
I started with Bacopa on 3rd of May. I’m taking it for 25 days now and unfortunately I don’t feel any effect. Research shows that full effect from bacopa can be felt from 1 to 3 months of taking it. Usually with me if nootropic works, I can feel it shortly after taking it.
Do you think there is a point for me to wait for another 2 months to see if it works?
Or should I stop taking it, and start another nootropic that you recommended?
David it would be very helpful if you could tell me, how long should I take each nootropic that you recommended, to see if it works? Not to waste any time.
For example:
Bacopa Monnieri – from 1 to 3 months.
GABA – up to………
Oat Straw –
Gotu Kola –
Panax Ginseng –
Holy Basil extract –
Ashwagandha –
Thank You David for your help.
Mick, many of these supplements should provide an effect you can feel within the first couple of doses. Bacopa seems to be the exception to this. But if you’ve not had any relief in 3 weeks I’d try something else.
I’d give you a specific order to try them in but my suggestions would not be based on any real science. All you can do is go through the list until you find something that works for you.
Hello, I would like to ask about my nephew, he is 17 years old, and for years he suffers from a problem of several symptoms very badly misdiagnosed by the psychiatrists who continuously change his medication because it does not have the expected effect in any case. He has a great anxiety that transforms in numerous cases into paranoia, a lot of anger and impotence, inability to understand things and a lot of superficiality in his thoughts, seclusion at home and total disappointment with life and people. You are now being treated with riserlidone 1 mg but it is the same. We did not want to medicate him anymore since they wanted to give him antidepressants as well and we desperately look for something that works without the undesirable effects of all the medication that has been taken so far. In Spain there is very little information on nootropics and I would like to ask for help on what combination it could take to be effective and the doses in each case. I thank you very much for all your dedication, thank you!
Óscar, I understand your concern but it is not possible to recommend a specific nootropic stack for your nephew and expect results.
Please read this post again so you understand that you must experiment with various supplements addressing each possible cause until you find something that works.
To reduce the anxiety and paranoia you describe with natural supplements takes dedication and work until you find what works for you. There is no magic pill.
And each of the nootropics reviewed in this post links through to a full review which included dosage recommendations.
Greetings from Catalonia !, is it possible that the daily combination of Mind Lab Pro and Performance Lab Energy along with magnesium and Omega 3 can reverse social phobia, agoraphobia, lack of memory and lucidity? I have read many combinations and I am very confused. I can not concentrate to find the best with so many options … My medication now for years is diazepam 5 mg once a day (sometimes 2 times) is the only thing that has helped me minimally for social phobia and agoraphobia but I want to leave it if I feel that with the nootropics I overcome the symptoms. Thank you very much for all this valuable information and generosity !!
Eve, Mind Lab Pro and Performance Lab Energy will help with overall cognition. But cannot be compared to something as potent as diazepam for social anxiety.
I suggest you research “how diazepam works in your brain”. And if it does provide some benefit then look for nootropics that also work on GABA similar to this prescription drug.
Do a search of Nootropics Expert for “benzodiazepine” and you’ll get results like: Ashwagandha, Bacopa Monnieri, Kava Kava, and Valerian.
I suggest looking at the review on this site for each nootropic. And then try the supplements that look attractive to you one at a time. Until you find something that works for you.
really thank you David!
Gracias por toda esta valiosa información!
Mi pregunta es que si tomo Mind lab pro y además quiero tomar también un compuesto eficaz de nootropicos diseñado para fobia social, ¿cual me aconsejaría que fuera compatible con mind lab pro? Un fuerte abrazo!
Me refiero a utilizar además de Mind lab pro, otro compuesto de nootropicos eficaz para fobia social. Gracias!
Xénia, it depends on what is causing your social phobia (anxiety). I suggest you go through each of the neurotransmitters described in this post and try a precursor to boost that neurotransmitter to see if it helps. But do one at a time.
For example, to find out if you are low in dopamine, try supplementing with extra L-Tyrosine or NALT and see if it helps. Do that for each neurotransmitter until you feel a difference. Then you know you are on the right track. And work on that pathway in your brain until you no longer deal with social phobia.
Hi David,
Over the last couple of years i have become increasingly interested in bio hacking, inadvertently at first starting with multivitamins and stimulants to help supplement a very physically active lifestyle, i discovered i was vit b & iron deficient and this uncovering aswell as the dramatic changes in mental and physical well being i experienced once i began supplementing these vital vitamins fuelled my passion to further better myself by understanding and attempting to rectify many other issues i have.
I have had stammer/stutter from a very young age, which doctors explained was most like the result of a very traumatic period i was subjected to as a child. Out of all my other interest in biohacking, understanding the connection between my psychological state and how it both subconsciously and consciously effects my ability to speak drives me the most, as ive never truly understood why i speak fluently in some pressured situations and stammer out of control in some less pressured environments and vice versa, aswell as never stammering when im by myself.
Obviously i do not expect a “cure” for this social disability as the deep seeded roots of the disorder are most likely intertwined within my neural pathways and carved into my mind through repetition and learned behaviour as a child, however i would like to know if you have any knowledge or research on any natural supplementation that has shown to affect people suffering with speech impediments such as stuttering, or similar involuntary behaviours such as tourettes?
Id expect any supplements that effect muscular over tightening, involuntary spasms, anxiety, mental blockage, lack of self confidence, tension in the body or repairing cognitive behavioural issues would be worth a try.
Kind Regards,
Drew
Drew, this stammering issue could be caused by any number of things which is likely no surprise to you. I suggest you start experimenting one at at time with things that boost acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin and GABA. And see if any one of those precursors makes a difference. The suggestions in this post may be a good place to start.
For example; Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline for acetylcholine, L-Tyrosine for dopamine, L-Tryptophan for serotonin and GABA. But do each separately for 2 or 3 days and see if you get any benefit. Once you start noticing a difference then you know to pursue that path.
Thanks David,
i have already been taking L-Tryptophan for the serotonin to regulate my sleep better, aswell as L-Tyrosine for mild anxiety and stress support. And after watching your Video comparing the best Choline supplements i have purchased both Aplha GPC & CDP- Choline to add to my nootropics stack.
Once again thank you for your reply and i look forward to keeping up to date with future videos.
Hello David I have followed your work for some time. I am 32yrs old and i have always felt difficult to finish mundane things right from my childhood. It has affected my professional life as well. Never knew what ADD was until recently. But the symptoms seems to fit exactly with ADD. My problems areas are attention for long time, procrasination until the last moment, lack of proper sleep, low self esteem, day dreaming, fear of failure, anxiety while interacting with strangers in my professional circle.
figured out Dopamine could be the issue. Below is my stack that am currently on for the last three weeks. I could defintely see some difference in my mood. Am i on the right track here and what are your recommendations. Kindly let me know. Thanks
Morning empty stomach
L-Theanine – 500mg
L-Tyrosine – 500mg
Aswagandha – 400mg
After Breakfast
DHA – 1000mg
Multivitamin
Late Afternoon
L – Tyrosine – 500mg
DLPA – 500mg
Late Evening
L – Tryptophan
B Complex Cap
Gotu Kola
Night
L- Theanine – 500mg
Nanda, you are definitely on the right track. You may want to do something to increase acetylcholine as well.
Please see the stack for ADD I recommend in this post for nootropic suggestions, dosage as well as timing: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-adhd-add/
At the very least I’d suggest L-Tyrosine + ALCAR and/or Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline in the morning, at noon and possibly another dose around 4 PM. Add them to the rest of your current stack.
Hi David, I’m a 21 y/o college student diagnosed with social anxiety and clinical depression. My anxiety is more situation and comes and goes, but it causes physical symptoms such as poor concentration, migraines, back aches, etc. Tried Aniracetam but it didn’t work. Have been taking magnesium for a month now, with no noticeable success. What would you recommend? Thanks!
Kayla, go back to “Anxiety is a Neurotransmitter Problem” and read through each neurotransmitter and suggestions on how to support each. You’ve started experimenting and must continue until you find the root cause of your anxiety and depression. You may want to try one nootropic from each section above and see if there is any improvement. But I wouldn’t take them all together because you’ll not know what is working.
This is a classic case of trial and error until you get to the heart of your problem.
Have you ever used a prescription drug and had any success with it? If you have, find out the mechanism of action for that drug and find a natural alternative for it.
How would you recommend eliminating clonazepam. The only other med I take is syntroid.
Rick, check out Ashwagandha which may help ease benzo withdrawal symptoms: https://nootropicsexpert.com/ashwagandha/
Thank you David for your help, I will try it and see if it helps
Thank you David for your advice
Do you think it’s a good idea to try PharmaGABA first and see how it feels, and some time after I could try GABA?
Mick, PharmaGABA is just a natural form of GABA produced by a Japaneses company as I recall. Other forms of GABA are synthetically produced. So it’s up to you and your preference on what type of supplement to use; natural or synthetic.
Hi David,
My biggest problem is social anxiety and at the moment it’s not too bad, but I still feel uncomfortable in social situations.
I would like to tell you what I’m currently taking and if you could help me to add or to try something new, or maybe to change the dosage.
I’m taking these nootropics at the moment:
B Complex, methylcobalamin, folate (in the morning)
Magnesium L-Threonate (at night), I take 2 caps. (3 caps = 2,000mg)
DHA 1000mg (in the morning)
Performance Lab Whole-Food Multi (2 caps at night and 2 caps in the morning)
M.L.P. (2 caps in the morning)
With unrefined coconut oil.
I’m taking L-Glutamine in the morning and before bed, mostly for training (weight lifting) and I heard it’s good for anxiety as well.
I’m also taking tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) Nortriptyline (Allegron) 100mg (at night)
L-Theanine (400mg in the morning and 400mg in the afternoon).
The best nootropic that works for my social anxiety is L-Theanine.
I was thinking, because L-Theanine affects dopamine in the brain I could try boosting dopamine with NALT or L-Tyrosine. I did that for about 3 weeks, but I did not feel much difference. Later I noticed that L-Theanine also increases GABA, serotonin and boosting alpha and theta brain waves. I remembered that before nootropics my only option was benzodiazepines which increase GABA, and they helped me, but with lots of side effects, so I decided to try Phenibut. I’ve tried Phenibut twice, 600mg each time. It works great, but it starts working after 2-4 hours after taking it. Which makes it not very convenient, plus tolerance and bad withdrawals if taken often. The good thing is it worked for me. After trying it I wanted to try something similar to Phenibut to boost GABA, but without side effects and tolerance, and I tried Picamilon. I’ve tried Picamilon for 5 days, delivered from 3 different places, one of them was with Certificate of Analyses. Three of them felt the same, stimulatory effect, like I was thinking faster and more social when talking to people. It had good benefits, but it didn’t do much for my social anxiety.
I haven’t tried increasing serotonin, because in the past I tried prescription SSRIs antidepressants and it didn’t help with my social anxiety.
Or maybe I should try boosting norepinephrine?
Another idea I had is to try boosting Brain waves, especially alpha brain wave, like L-Theanine does, but I don’t know any nootropics that can do it.
David could you please recommend something that I could try, any help is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your help
Mick, read back over what you wrote. The first thing that jumped out at me was you likely found the biggest culprit behind your symptoms. And that is likely GABA. I suggest doing something really simple and that is try a GABA supplement before bed. Find one using PharmaGABA and try 500 or 1000 mg about 90 mins. before bed. You may surprise yourself.
I realize that the current wisdom says GABA can’t cross the blood-brain barrier. But since I wrote my GABA review I’ve come across a couple of studies showing GABA traveling from the gut to the brain via the vagus nerve. And I’ve also found that the entire brain is not protected by the BBB either. Including your pituatary and pineal glands.
Try this and let me know if it helped please.
Hi David,
Thank you so much for writing this article. I take celexa 20mg and prozac 40mg for depression and anxiety . can you please advise me the nootropics that can work for me . would I have to stop the medicines before starting nootropics or how will it work. Please advise how should I go about it. The medicines I am taking does not seem to be helping me . Thanks in advance.
Muhammad
Muhammad, if antidepressants are not helping you then your anxiety and depression could be caused by some other imbalance. I can’t suggest any specific nootropic because only you can get to the bottom of what is causing your issues.
And how you do this is by trial and error. Try using something like L-Tyrosine to boost dopamine and see if that helps. If it does then you know you are low in dopamine.
Same with acetylcholine signaling. Try supplementing with Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline and see if that helps. If it does then you know you were low in acetylcholine.
See where I’m going with this?
But one BIG word of caution here. Learn the exact mechanism of action for each of the drugs you are using. Wikipedia seems to be a good source for learning this about each drug. Then look at the mechanism of action of each nootropic as described here on Nootropics Expert.
You must avoid taking something that is contraindicated with your prescription meds. Mixing certain nootropics with things like antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs can be dangerous. And downright deadly.
Hello,
What nootropics would you recommend to help with for porn addiction?
Perhaps something to boost dopamine and serotonin to ease cravings?
Thanks
Aleksandar, these nootropics have been shown to be helpful in treating many types of addiction: Lithium Orotate, L-Gutamine, Resveratrol, and N-Acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC).
For dopamine try N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine and for serotonin try L-Tryptophan or very low doses of 5-HTP.
Thanks!
OK David Thank You very much for your help, I really appreciate it.
Hi David,
I would like to thank you for your book Head First which has a lot of useful recommendations and advice. My biggest problem is social anxiety and at the moment it’s not too bad, but I still feel uncomfortable in social situations.
I would like to tell you what I’m currently taking and if you could help me to add something, or to change the dosage or maybe to take it in the morning instead of night?
I’ve never done a blood test about this problem, and If I should, what kind of blood test should I do?
I’m taking these nootropics at the moment:
B Complex, methylcobalamin, folate (at night)
Magnesium L-Threonate (at night), I take 2 caps. (3 caps = 2,000mg)
DHA 1000mg (at night)
Performance Lab Whole-Food Multi (2 caps at night and 2 caps in the morning)
M.L.P. (2 caps in the morning)
L-Theanine (400mg in the morning and 400mg in the afternoon).
With unrefined coconut oil.
I’m also taking tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) Nortriptyline (Allegron) 100mg (at night)
M.L.P. and Whole-Food Multi I started about 1 month ago.
The best nootropic that worked for my social anxiety was L-Theanine. I started taking it 82 days ago to be exact, and in the beginning it worked great, but I don’t feel it much anymore. I probably got tolerant to it.
One of the ideas was, if we become tolerant to a nootropic we can cycle it. I would like to do it, but if I will stop taking it, I will probably need something else to replace it, otherwise my anxiety will increase. What do you think is a good idea I can replace it with?
As it says in the book – Not all nootropics are susceptible to tolerance, can you please recommend some nootropics that I will not become tolerant to in the future for social anxiety?
Thank you David for your help
Mick
Mick, tolerance really largely depends on the individual for most nootropics. For example, tolerance is not an issue with me for things like Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine. But it is for some people.
But I can’t imagine developing a tolerance to something like L-Theanine. This nootropic affects dopamine in your brain along with folate. So if you’ve felt success with a nootropic boosting dopamine you may want to consider trying something like NALT or L-Tyrosine (but see caution below).
Blood and lab tests are not very reliable when it comes to measuring things like neurotransmitters. That’s why it’s a good idea to notice that when something works at least a little… find out what it affects and why it’s working. Then find something else that may work a little better. For you it may be simply raising dopamine in your brain.
But you need to be super-careful here because Nortriptyline is norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Dopamine turns into norepinephrine. Boosting dopamine too much while taking this drug could be very dangerous and possibly even deadly.
I suggest taking all of your nootropics in the morning and at noon including the vitamins and minerals. With the exception of magnesium which should be dosed before bed.
Great article/list. But one compound missing that has been proven effective and possibly more effective than anxiety reduction pharmaceuticals is Passionflower: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11679026
My, and others I know, experience is that it impressively takes the edge off. Highly recommended for anxiety including SAD.
Good one Jim. I’ll add it to my list of nootropic supplement to review. Thanks.
What are the people in benzodiazepine withdrawal, like Xanax? Also with ruminations that are negative often. I know it’s kind of conditioning, but getting through these rough. Sometimes debilitating and full despair.
I don’t know why they keep trying serotonin type medications on me and they always have an adverse effect.
I fear though the way Benzo’s work, and being in there with drawl state where receptors are so down regulated that in the traffic that works the same way with Kindle me, or cause more trouble.
Thank you
Rob, you are correct in that benzos like Xanax likely down-regulate GABA receptors over time. Ashwagandha has been found to upregulate and reactivate GABA receptors.
Hi David,
I have just stumbled upon your website, and have found this article very in formative and helpful. I have recently discovered nootropics, although always had a passion for natural health.
I have social anxiety and generalised anxiety, and have dealt with this for years without realising I had anxiety – I just thought I was a ‘stress head’. I recently went to the doctor about this and she put me on SSRI’s. I hated it, hence here I am, looking for a natural alternative.
I have read through your replies and I understand it may take some time before I find whats right/works for me, but I am just wondering if you have any suggestions on where to start? I am 29, work in a high-stress job, and would like to find something that calms my anxiety and irritability (I get triggered easily at the best of times). I am currently taking Vitamin D, Vitamin B12, Magnesium, Vitamin C and Tumeric daily. I have just ordered some Lions Mane and Reishi mushrooms, which I will mix together as I would like the benefits from each strain which differ from what I have read.
Thanks in advance, and thanks for your time.
Allie, you mentioned that you tried a SSRI but hated it. But did it work for you? Because if you had some success in curbing anxiety symptoms with the SSRI then you may be dealing with a serotonin issue. If you had no success whatsoever then it may be a dopamine issue. Or something else.
Start with a high quality B-Complex supplement that uses folate (NOT folic acid) and methylcobalamin (NOT cyanocobalamin) at fairly high dosages. Check each individual review for an idea on the doses I’m talking about. They are considerably higher than the RDA but not so high they are toxic.
Also make sure your magnesium dosage in high enough. Again, check the review. The depending on your response to the first part of this response, you can try L-Tryptophan for serotonin or L-Tyrosine for dopamine.
See where I’m going with this?
Hi…this is my first post EVER on any of the sites (like here on NE.com) or forums I’ve been silently reading for many years. In a one-sentence nutshell, I suffer from ACUTE/SEVERE social anxiety in on specific case: in front of an audience. Surprisingly I have ZERO social-anxiety in groups of 5-or-less (and even thrive on it), but when I’m giving company-wide presentations, announcements, or heading up weekly meetings to 100+ employees, I LITERALLY (this has happened several times in my career) cannot catch my breath, and my heart-rate feels WORSE than when I mountain-bile 10+ miles. These are NOT exaggerations: I have had to WALK OUT of board-rooms and from behind podiums before, always making up excuses that I got ‘sick.’ I manage a very successful insurance firm with many brokerage branches, and it’s very often I’m in front of 100’s of staff giving out awards, or doing live web-casts to 6+ offices.
PLEASE…PLEASE HELP! After years of researching and self-medicating with theanine and other non-script alternatives, I’ve been hesitant to reach out for specific help with my condition. In smaller groups, I often give multi-million dollar annuity and investment presentations or can be the life of the party etc., I’m in charge of office operations (hiring, firing, training etc.) but when it comes to large groups…I get crippled with hyperventilation and my sternum (chest bone) feels like it’s going to blister from the pounding of my heart!! Thanks.
As you can see from this post there could be a number of things causing your anxiety when in front of a large audience. Scroll up to the “norepinephrine” section where it says, “For example, propranolol (which is classed as a beta-blocker), an antagonist of the beta2-norepinephrine receptor, is used to reduce the rapid heart rate, tremors and quivering voice that you get when you’re about to step on stage in front of an audience.”
So in that section you could try magnesium, L-Tryptophan and St. John’s wort to calm spikes in norepinephrine.
But the bottom-line is it’ll likely take several different nootropics used consistently and daily before you achieve what you want. And it’ll take some trial and error as well.
Try putting together a stack by selecting one or two nootropics from each section of this post. Including a high quality B-Complex supplement, magnesium and DHA.
Seeking truth just described my situation exactly.
So what if my dopamine seems low and my norepinephrine is shooting high under stress in front of crowds?
Michael, you can bring norepinephrine under control with L-Theanine, NAC, Inositol, and a high quality Omega-3 which is high in DHA. These supplements help control glutamate and norepinephrine which calms your brain.
Ok.. and can I still take Mucuna Pruriens for the dopamine? Or am I gonna cause my norepinephrine levels to get worse? I only get spikes in stressful situations
Michael, it really depends on how your body converts dopamine to norepinephrine. The best you can do is to use those nootropics daily and consistently even while using Mucuna and it should help.
I’m very new to all of this and have experienced anxiety and depression for years. I want to finally take control. I’ve bought 5-htp, gaba actyl carnitine (for weight loss also), nacetyl cysteine and niacinamide. I’m trialling and learning about stacking. I want to do it safely. ATM I’m on acetylcarnitine, nacetyl cystein and I think I took some ixoracetam as well this morning. I will buy some scales to be sure to only take the right amount. My question is, is it safe to continue alcohol use – once a week or so – say a couple of glasses of wine? And can anyone recommend the right stack to start with? Thanks.
Jac, I haven’t seen any clinical trials or other data that would indicate a couple of weekly glasses of wine would make much difference.
And there is no “right stack” because when treating something like anxiety, it really is trial and error. Try different supplements until you find that perfect combination for you. It takes time but is well worth the effort.
I wish I could, but I can’t begin every post with a “recommended nootropic stack” for anxiety, depression, memory or whatever it is that needs fixing. The best I can do is provide a list of nootropics shown to be effective for treating something like anxiety. Everyone one of us is different with unique causes of anxiety.
Hi David,
Thanks for your recommendations. I too have had generalized anxiety, social anxiety, panic attacks, etc., a lot of which I think has to do with previous addictions and resulting withdrawal syndrome.
The low magnesium is interesting since I have a history of kidney stones and I’m starting to put 2 and 2 together.
I’m wondering what’s your take on probiotics for anxiety? I’ve had several food intolerances and started taking them just a few days ago in an attempt to restore gut flora. You could not believe the reaction I’ve had to taking these. Feeling very ill (like the flu but with pronounced muscle pain) and am wondering whether it’s a Herx/detox or some type of blood poisoning because of the bacteria, although it is said that probiotics are generally safe and actual sepsis from taking them is rare.
I possibly do have undiagnosed (Lyme, Epstein Barr) infection, although I’ve been thoroughly examined, which I think has been contributing to my anxiety. A herx of course would confirm my suspicion and if so I’d like to continue treatment with these probiotics, although in smaller doses or not as often. I’ve had a splenectomy as a kid so don’t really know if I’m immunocompromised or not and if it’s safe for me to continue taking these organisms.
I’d really appreciate your thoughts. Magnesium seems to be something I really need and will be taking it from now on. I’ve had low D, B12 and testosterone as well. I don’t always react well to supplements but if I’m not mistaking certain mineral deficiencies could be to blame for low vitamin counts due to problems with synthesis?
I’ve been prescribed anti depressant medication but really don’t like taking them at all.
Also would like to know what you’d recommend to take for post acute withdrawal syndrome and the restoration of dopamine receptors. Would magnesium be helpful? I don’t really like taking adaptogens since they always seem to cause adverse reactions after a number of days.
Thanks in any case,
Ken
Ken, Sulbutiamine has been shown to increase the density of dopamine receptors. And N-Acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC) helps protect and restore them.
Your body and brain require all the vitamins and minerals I mention in my posts on vitamins and minerals. Scroll through this list of posts to locate them: https://nootropicsexpert.com/blog/. At the correct dosages they all support each other and work in synergy. But you need to be careful to stay with recommended dosages. For example, too much zinc will suppress copper.
It’s possible that something you are taking (i.e. probiotic) is acting as detox agent and our are dealing with detox symptoms. They eventually go away.
A safer option for you right now may be Performance Lab’s Prebiotic which acts to support your existing gut flora: https://nootropicsexpert.com/performance-lab-prebiotic-review/
Many thanks for the reply sir. I appreciate your time and effort.
Thank you, very valuable information! I love your videos, however I am a bit overwhelmed with so many Nootropics and which ones to use. Is it safe to stack all of the nootropics mentioned for social anxiety at once? If not, are some, essential must have and others can be introduced ramdomly and experimented with over time. Or are Nootropics divided by cotegories, therefore recommended to use one from each category.
I suffer from Social phobia, shyness, depression, anxiety, lack of focus, memory, and motivation. Also I could use a little more energy Thanks!
Michael, the difficult thing about recommending a nootropic stack for each of your symptoms is that it each may have different causes. And unless you know exactly what the root cause it then you need to experiment. The process of elimination will leave you with a usable stack of maybe 6 supplements and you could be symptom-free.
But where to start? You could safely select one nootropic from each of the neurotransmitter categories above and see if it works. The section before the subhead “Recommendations …). Chances are you’ll have some relief but not be completely symptom-free. Or you may get lucky. But after using a stack like this for a few weeks you’ll start to know what works. And what doesn’t.
I always suggest starting with the basics like the B-Complex vitamins, magnesium, DHA and a good multivitamin. Then add two or three others and go from there.
I realize this seems like a long process. But then, how long have you been feeling this way? And how motivated are you to get better?
Final note, always read (and understand) the recommended dosage of each nootropic you intend to try, possible side effects and drug interactions. This slow, careful approach will limit negative side effects. And using the correct dose (not necessarily what the manufacturer says on the bottle) will provide a more accurate way to assess if something is working for you. Or not.
Greetings David,
Thank you for all the very useful information.
You have made my introduction to Nootropics a better experience 🙂
It’s been 15 days since I started my stack and I’m definitely feeling a very small improvement in mood and mental fog. I also cleaned up my diet significantly, eliminated sugar, decreased carbs and increased healthy fats.
This is the current stack I stated on:
In the morning on an empty stomach – Taken with water:
Piracetam (1g)
Alpha GPC (100mg)
L-theanine (400mg)
ALCAR (500mg)
1 hour later – taken with MCT oil and green juice (contents – avocado, kale, spinach, peanut butter, blue berries, chia seeds, cashew – almond milk with pea protein, coconut oil):
Aniracetam (500mg)
Alpha GPC (100mg)
Magnesium – bisglycinate (100mg)
Sulbutiamine (200mg)
1 hour later taken with breakfast:
Krill oil (1,00mg)
Curcumin,Bioperine, Ginger combination (750mg Curcumin, Bioperine 5mg, Ginger 35mg)
2 hours later taken with lunch:
Life Extension Bio-Active Complete B-Complex (recommended daily dosage)
Zinc
Vitamin C
Vitamin D3
2 hours later with a snack: (typically an avacado or pumpkin seeds)
Another serving of
Krill oil (1,00mg)
or
Curcumin,Bioperine, Ginger combination (750mg Curcumin, Bioperine 5mg, Ginger 35mg)
2 hours before bedtime
Magnesium – bisglycinate (100mg)
My mental history: I grew up with low self esteem, insecurities, social phobia, and low motivation. I’m sure this was the result of parental verbal abuse and contemp. I wasn’t depressed, but I wasn’t happy either. At the age of 19 I was put on Prozac. Prozac worked wonders, restored my happiness and eliminated Social Anxiety. Unfortunately, the effect only lasted about 2 months. I was back where I stated with the addition of actual depression and new forms of anxiety. I tried other meds on and off over the years with very little susccess, the only 2 that helped a ittle were Celexa and Effector, but with sexual side effects. I eventually switched to Lamotrigina as a mood estabilizer and Hydroxyzine for Anxiety.
Since I started my Nootropic stack I decreased the Lamotrigine from 125 mg to 75 per day. I also eliminated the Hydroxyzine, and as a resul my mental fog decreased, however my insomnia increased.
I just placed an order for L-Tryptophan to aid with the insomnia.
I would gratfully appreciate it if you can give me your feed back and suggestions on optimizing my stack and the order in which I’m supplementing them. Also any advise to improve sleep.
Thanks again.
Michael, I’ve had good success using magnesium 400 mg, L-Trytophan 500 mg and tart cherry juice for sleep. https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-sleep/. Or you could try a very similar stack with Performance Lab Sleep: https://nootropicsexpert.com/performance-lab-sleep-review/. If you try it I’d recommend adding another 300 mg magnesium to it before bed.
As a side note: switch ALL of your magnesium so you’re taking it 60 – 90 minutes before bed.
For depressive symptoms you could try St. John’s wort or Ginkgo Biloba but I would read the side effects and contraindications of each one before you try either one.
You may also want to consider increasing your Alpha GPC dosage each time you take it. And use a tablespoon of unrefined coconut oil each time you take your stack as well.
Hi there, have been suffering from social anxiety, OCD and bouts of depression for the last 10 years am 26 years old. Have tried SSRI’s, CBT, hypnotherapy and a few natural supplements with nothing helping me. I had blood tests done testosterone and cortisol normal levels. Did a vitamins and minerals test was almost deficient in glutamic acid, magnesium, iron and Maltase. Was a few others but not as serious. Been taking all the supplements needed for months now and I feel no different, decided I’ve had enough and stumbled across nootropics. I’ve tried piracetam for just over a week but made me so tired was struggling at work. Have read Aniracetam may be a better alternative? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated
* also was very low in B vitamins but been taking a good multi B vitamin for a about 4 months solid. I exercise a lot and eat a healthy diet
Sam, you will not get any benefit from Piracetam (or any of the racetams) if you don’t dose them correctly. Including using a good choline supplement like Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline. It likely made you tired because it used up most of the acetylcholine in your brain and you didn’t replenish it.
I suggest you do a search using the search function top right here on Nootropics Expert for the keyword “OCD”. You’ll get results like Tryptophan and Uridine along with others. Choose a couple of those supplements and see if they work for you.
Please read this post on depression: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-depression/ so you have a better idea on what you’re dealing with here. And possibly a different approach to correcting these problems.
Thanks a lot for the reply. What dose would you recommend for piracetam?I’ve tried small and large with the same feelings also have alpha gpc rather than a not so good choline source I was using to take alongside, so will give another go. I will look in to all those thing so thanks again
Sam, see dosage instructions here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/piracetam/
I have been struggling for sooo long. I have fibromyalgia pain,suffer from depression. The only antidepressants I have found I can use are tricyclics. But had to take me off because of tardive dyskinesia. Drs want me to take gabapentin but it makes me irritated. Go figure that? I can’t sleep and suffer from some nervousness. Which I guess could be anxiety. I can’t take any SSRIs.
Sandi, if tricyclics worked for you then the first thing to do is find out exactly how these types of antidepressants work (i.e. Wikipedia). For example, tricyclics work by boosting serotonin and norepinephrine by blocking some their their receptors. And are antagonists of muscarinic acetylcholine receptors. Which means they block acetylcholine signaling in parts of your body and help block the kind of pain you experience from fibromyalgia.
Next, go through each of the nootropics listed in this post and find the supplements that mimic or do what tricyclics do. In other words, find nootropics for increasing serotonin, norepinephrine and see if you can find one that is an anticholinergic.
Start with Aniracetam (dopamine which turns into norepinephrine), cacao (for serotonin), phenylalanine (for dopamine and norepinephrine) and each of the B-Vitamins.
Find nootropics that interest you and start trying them one by one until you find something that works. It will likely take 3 – 5 different supplements in a stack to take care of your symptoms. It will not happen overnight. This is a longterm commitment to experimenting and consistent use.
Dear David reading that social anxiety could be a ‘chemical’ problem I am so relieved. Because now I believe I can have a solution! I am 43 year old woman. Social anxiety is a problem since my childhood at school, at work even at home! Can you believe I have social anxiety problem with my parents, husband and relative. That’s why people think that I do not want to relate or care about them since I am afraid to do that. Even while I am writing these sentences I am thinking that what I write is stupid, I am taking time of you people with my nonsense words and nobody wants to talk about my stupid worthless situation. Yeah that what I feel always. I’ve been already working on making my own stack for ADD. And It seems there are many nootropics about anxiety. It confused me a little bit what to add to my stack for anxiety problem.
Baris, please believe me when I tell you that you are not alone. Millions around the world deal with this as well. It may take some time as you experiment with different supplements. Because there’s no way to know exactly what is causing the anxiety. But stay with it and you’ll find which supplements work for you.
It will likely take several different supplements to get the results you want. But imagine the relief when one day you wake up and realize it’s gone. And you feel ‘normal’. Your family will likely notice it before you do.
Hi David,
Which ones are good to begin with? I am new to these, but from the research I’ve done it’s hard to know where to begin as there are so many factors in play.
I am trying to find a solution to erythrophobia and limit or stop the physical appeareance of blushing triggered on a daily basis. I feel like I’m in fight or flight mode constantly. My memory and concentration are also impacted due to the anxiety. I have had a lot of stress in the past which may have had an impact.
Having tried CBT and a number of other therapy routes this seems like a logical next step.
Thanks
Ellen
Ellen, difficult question to answer because you need to know what is causing the anxiety problem. And the only way to get closer to the answer is to experiment. But here’s a suggestion on how to start …
Re-read this post so you have a better understanding what you are dealing with. And why the uncertainty. Then start with the basics as your foundation.
DHA (Omega-3’s), magnesium and a really high quality B-Complex supplement. The B-s need to be the kind your body recognize as food. Like folate instead of folic acid, etc. Please see this post for more on vitamins > https://nootropicsexpert.com/13-vitamins-essential-for-the-optimized-brain/
Then start trying some of the adaptogens. But don’t wait. I would try Gotu Kola, Lemon Balm, Bacopa Monnieri and Ginkgo Biloba. But one at a time to see how you react. You may try one that works and not bother trying others. This is the way it works.
I would also try increasing serotonin and GABA. L-Tryptophan (TrypoPure) which is easy to get. Or Picamilon which may be a little harder to find.
This type of stack will calm anxiety and improve memory and concentration. But it’ll take a combination of supplements to get where you want to be. Each of these has a complete review here on Nootropics Expert with dosage recommendations, side effects and types to buy.
Hi, I really enjoy your website it’s hard to find good quality und trustworthy information when it comes to nootropics.
I have been suffering from social anxiety and some phobias (darkness, paranoia, night time separation, yes there are adults that have those) for some several years now. I also have always had some problems with mild depression although it has gotten worse this year.
I don’t want to take prescripted antidepressants because of the side effects.
What kind of nootropic combination do you think could work for me? I am 21 y/o and female.
Nina, start with the basics including DHA (Omega-3), magnesium and a nature-identical B-Vitamin. See individual reviews for detail on what I mean by “nature-identical” and dosage for each.
Then look at the reviews on a place like Amazon for Bacopa Monnieri, Ginkgo Biloba, Gotu Kola, and Lemon Balm. Choose one or two and try them. But follow dosage instructions and see the side effects for the review of each here on Nootropics Expert.
It will take some experimenting until you find exactly what works best for you. But it’ll be worth the effort. You’ll know in less than a week if something works or not.
I recently got some blood work done. My homocysteine is 12.9, my tsh is 3.45. I suffer from high blood pressure, high cholesterol, fibromyalgia, depression, anxiety, PTSD…. I have had a lot of trauma and abuse in my life. I also suffer from insomnia. My whole body aches.
I am 57 years old. My dhea level is 75. I am trying to figure out what will help me. I have very bad reactions to antidepressants. I also have a gene mutation with the mthfr. I was thinking of trying Sam e. Do you think that is a good idea? I also realize I have pyroluria too. I am taking b6, folate, and b12 now too.
I know this is long, any suggestions? I don’t feel like myself. I graduated nursing school in 1989. I never learned any of this! I do have titanium and screws in my neck due to stenosis. I was told by two neurologists that if I didn’t get the operation I would be a quadroplegic.
All I want is to feel better.
Mary, first thing I suggest is finding a good integrative or natural health doctor who can help you with blood pressure, cholesterol and fibromylgia. Someone who knows how to take care of hormone issues naturally.
We deal primarily with the brain here and do our best not to stray too far from our area of expertise.
Pyroluria is a problem with hemoglobin synthesis resulting in very low levels of Vitamin B6 and zinc.The symptoms you describe could ALL be attributed to this disorder. You likely have more going on but it’s a good place to start.
Please read my review on Vitamin B6 (https://nootropicsexpert.com/vitamin-b6-pyridoxine/) and zinc (https://nootropicsexpert.com/zinc/) and learn exactly how to use them. Including any recommended additional vitamins and minerals needed to make them do their job.
SAM-e is likely a good idea but again, please read my full review of SAM-e (https://nootropicsexpert.com/sam-e/) before you decide to use it.
I’ve written detailed posts on how to deal with depression, anxiety and PTSD. Each posts explains exactly what causes these issues and provides a list of nootropic supplements that may be able to help. You’ll find those posts here > https://nootropicsexpert.com/blog/
They do not teach this stuff in nursing or med school. And the reason why Nootropics Expert exists. To help people help themselves.
I suffer from anxiety sweats in meetings or speaking in a group. I don’t want to go back to medications. I also suffer from clammy hands, shakiness (sometimes), flushing, & sweating. I come off as confident & when I tell people I have anxiety, they get surprised.
Oliver, sounds like you are dealing with a common condition called “Palmar Hyperhidrosis”. Gizmodo has about the clearest analysis I’ve found for this here > https://gizmodo.com/why-your-palms-get-sweaty-when-you-re-excited-scared-o-1459339958
Please re-read this post and check out DHA, magnesium, Aniracetam, Gotu Kola, Rhodiola Rosea and ALL of the B-Vitamins. It will take more than one or two nootropics to get this under control. So please read the full review of each of the nootropics I mentioned in this comment. You’ll find links to each full review in the main post above.
Dosage is key to making this work. So follow the dosage instructions in each review. And high quality supplements are also key to success. Especially for the B-Vitamins AND Rhodiola Rosea. You’ll understand why by reading the the “dosage” instructions and “forms available” sections in each nootropic review.
And please understand that experimentation is key to making nootropics work as well. The nootropics I mentioned above … some may not work for you. Look for alternatives if that happens. For example, if Gotu Kola doesn’t work then try Ginkgo Biloba, etc. Until you find success and can go in front of a stadium crowd without skipping a beat.
Hey,
Just wondering, wouldn’t Inositol be a good one to add to this list?
Sarah, inositol absolutely belongs on this list. I think it’s missing because I wrote this post before I did the inositol review. Myo-inositol helps relay the messages sent and received by serotonin receptors. So provides a SSRI-type role. Thanks for the heads up. Inositol is now on my list to update this post.
David,
I’ve found Ashwagandha, L-theanine, and an anti-inflammatory (e.g. Longvida curcumin or aspirin) to be a decent anti-anxiety combination.
Also, if you suffer from chronic anxiety, get your blood work done by your doctor.
You might have high prolactin, low testosterone (if you’re a guy), or a skewed Progesterone to Estrogen (if you’re a lady), and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.