Table of Contents
Key Takeaways
- B-Vitamins and multivitamins are crucial for brain health and neurotransmitter synthesis.
- Acetylcholine’s role in ADHD can be supported with nootropics like ALCAR and CDP-Choline.
- Nootropics like Ashwagandha and Bacopa Monnieri help repair damaged neuroreceptors in ADHD.
- Noopept enhances cognition, memory, and provides neuroprotection.
- Combining specific nootropics with essential vitamins can optimize brain function for managing ADHD symptoms.
Depending on the severity of your ADHD symptoms, you may be able to use nootropics as an alternative to prescription stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse and their variations.
I experimented for a year by using nootropics in place of the 20 mg of Ritalin I had been using 3-times a day for several years. And for the most part, I was successful in taming my Adult ADD symptoms.
Adult ADD Nootropic Stack
The ADD/ADHD stack I use includes:
- Mind Lab Pro
- Performance Lab® Energy – twice per day
- CDP-Choline – twice per day
- ALCAR – 750 mg 1-time per day
- L-Tyrosine – 500 mg 3-times per day
- Sulbutiamine – 400 mg twice per day
- Aniracetam – 750 mg twice per day
- Vinpocetine – 10 mg 3-times per day
- Performance Lab® Omega-3 – 3 GelCaps per day
- 1 tablespoon unrefined Coconut Oil or MCT Oil– 3-times per day
- Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi – 4 caps per day
During my one-year stimulant holiday, the ingredients in Mind Lab Pro along with L-Tyrosine, CDP-Choline, and ALCAR (included in Performance Lab Energy) kept my dopamine, norepinephrine, and acetylcholine levels high enough to maintain focus, motivation and improve my memory. Vinpocetine kept my brain blood flow at optimal levels. And Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine improved my mood.
But after a year I decided to go back to using 20 mg of Ritalin twice per day. Because my workload had me writing 10 hours per day. And maintaining working relationships with 2 or 3 clients at once.
By adding Ritalin back to my stack I was able to reduce the time it would take to complete a project from 3 days to 1 ½ days. Proof to me that my overall brain health couldn’t make it with nootropics alone.
The beauty of continuing to use L-Tyrosine, CDP-Choline, and ALCAR even after I started using Ritalin again was that I avoided the stimulant “crash” that is so common late afternoon when using stimulants. And I was able to reduce the original 20 mg Ritalin 3-times per day down to only twice per day.
And I have not experienced building up tolerance to Ritalin that is so common when using stimulants to treat ADD or ADHD.
Your situation may be different, or ADHD symptoms not as severe. Only you can decide if nootropics can replace ADHD meds. The stack I describe on this page is designed to be used with or without stimulant meds.
Whether you use this stack with meds or without, you’ll need to discover for yourself what dosages of each nootropic are ideal for you. Because the amounts that work for me may not work as well for you. You may need less NALT and/or ALCAR.
Experimenting is the key to success with nootropics. And knowing as much as you can about what’s going on in your brain that needs to be fixed. But after many years of recommending this ADHD nootropic stack to people just like us around the world, we know this works.
The pre-made nootropic stacks mentioned in this post include:
Prescription “Smart Drugs” vs. Nootropics for ADHD
This post is in response to many emails and questions I’ve been getting about how to treat Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) with nootropics.
So if you are dealing with ADHD, hopefully this post will help. Especially if you are using stimulants like Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse, Focalin, or any of the other stimulant prescribed for ADD/ADHD. Or you are trying to deal with ADHD naturally by avoiding prescription stimulants.
This information can also help if you are a student or executive who uses prescription “smart drugs” like Adderall or Modafinil to boost productivity.
Here we’ll dig into the causes of ADHD or ADD in your brain. Symptoms associated with ADHD. And what you can do using nootropics, or nootropics stacked with stimulants to correct ADHD symptoms.
I’ll also include ways to potentiate the effectiveness of prescription stimulants with nootropics so they work better.
If you’ve never ‘officially’ been diagnosed with ADHD, but some of this resonates with you, you could be ADHD or ADD. And this may point you to some answers.
I’ve been ADD all my life. (ADD is ADHD without the hyperactivity). But it wasn’t until about 16 years ago, that a very wise psychiatrist identified what was going on. And why I had been struggling with focus and other problems with behavior. That no amount of self-help books on focus and management could ever correct.
Ritalin turned the lights on for me. And completely changed my life for the better. This was the seed that sprouted my interest in neuroscience and nootropics. And ultimately launching Nootropics Expert®
What is ADHD & ADD?
Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) are associated with attention and executive function in your brain.
Your prefrontal cortex directs behavior, thought and feeling which are all associated with working memory. This fundamental cognitive function is what most “healthy” people take for granted, are what make up executive function.
This executive function and working memory give you the ability to:
- Regulate your attention
- Inhibit inappropriate behavior and thought
- Monitor your actions
- Plan and organize your future
If you can’t focus on the task at hand, blurt things out at inappropriate times, have little control over your emotions or actions, and can’t seem to stick to that careful set of goals you wrote down, you may be ADHD.
The Role of Norepinephrine and Dopamine in ADHD
Norepinephrine and dopamine are the primary neurotransmitters involved in ADHD because they play an essential role in attention and thinking.[i]
The “inattentive” type of ADHD is related to issues with the norepinephrine, and the “hyperactive and impulsive” type of ADHD is linked to dopamine dysfunction.
These two neurotransmitters work in concert to maintain alertness, increase focus, sustain thought, effort, and motivation. The only difference between the two is the presence of a hydroxyl group. And dopamine is the precursor to norepinephrine synthesis in your brain.[ii]
Much of what we read about ADHD focuses on dopamine’s function in your brain. But norepinephrine (NE) plays a critical role in activating your reaction to events. And how you respond to the event.[iii] NE is essential for collecting information coming in through your senses. And then modulating your brain’s response.
Any disruption in this NE system can result in ADHD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), sleep disorders and more.[iv]
For example, NE working with postsynaptic α2-adrenoceptors (α2-AR) in your brain play an essential role in helping you focus and eliminate distractions when you’re paying attention to something.[v]
This is just one example of what goes wrong with ADHD brain function. My point in bringing this all up is not to overwhelm you with neuroscience.
But to make clear that simply suggesting too much or too little of a single neurotransmitter like dopamine cannot explain the complexity of ADHD.
So using a nootropic like L-Tyrosine to amp up dopamine in your brain is often not enough to take care of ADHD symptoms. Or using Adderall with someone who has a problem with alpha2-receptor binding with norepinephrine may not get much benefit.
This is the reason that experimenting with various stimulants and/or nootropics is often the only way to find a long-term solution to keeping ADHD under control. And why some respond better to a drug like Ritalin and not as well to Adderall. Or vice versa.[vi]
And recent research shows serotonin and acetylcholine are involved too. Mostly the “hyperactivity” part of ADHD which includes movement, inattention, and impulsivity.[vii]
Smart Drugs Used to Treat ADHD Symptoms
If you are truly and clinically ADHD or ADD, it is unlikely that optimizing your diet, getting plenty of sleep, using nootropics, and exercising regularly will get the symptoms of ADHD under control.
The most severe forms of ADHD often benefit from using prescription medication. Otherwise known as “smart drugs” in some circles, these meds are typically amphetamines or methylphenidate.
The amphetamine-class of ADHD prescription drugs includes Adderall (75% dextroamphetamine salts and 25% levoamphetamine salts), Dextroamphetamine, and Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine).
The methylphenidate-class of ADHD medications includes methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its variants like Concerta, and Focalin.
Adderall and Ritalin both work with dopamine and norepinephrine in your brain. But through different mechanisms of action.
Ritalin is a pure uptake inhibitor of dopamine and norepinephrine without any other presynaptic activity.[viii] Adderall on the other hand, has additional presynaptic activity, releasing dopamine and norepinephrine from presynaptic neurons.
The idea for the last 60 years or so, has been if we could boost dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain, ADHD symptoms would go away. As long as we’re taking the medication.
Why Prescription Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Meds Often Don’t Work
In an ideal world, taking one pill 2 or 3 times a day to treat ADHD would put your life back on track. And help you function like a ‘normal’ person.
But real-world results often don’t work out as well as theory. For several reasons. For example, what if there’s not enough dopamine or norepinephrine in your brain in the first place? Then stimulants will not work as well as planned because they haven’t the neurotransmitters in place to work with.
You could also have problems with not enough or damaged neuroreceptors. Natural aging processes can slow blood flow or inhibit the production of neurotransmitters. A lack of acetylcholine could prevent your neurotransmitters from doing what they were designed to do.
This is where nootropics can help save the day in treating the symptoms of ADHD.
Optimizing Dopamine & Norepinephrine
One of main culprits contributing to ADHD symptoms is a lack of dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) in your brain. Or your brain is not using the available DA and NE effectively.
Stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin work to boost levels and use of these two critical neurotransmitters.
Production of dopamine and norepinephrine in your body and brain follows this metabolic pathway:
Phenylalanine → Tyrosine → L-DOPA → Dopamine → Norepinephrine
Dopamine is converted to norepinephrine by the enzyme dopamine β-monooxygenase, with O2 and ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) as cofactors.
Norepinephrine can be further converted into epinephrine by the enzyme phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase with SAM-e as cofactor.
Nootropics to boost dopamine and norepinephrine include:
- L-Tyrosine – L-Tyrosine is the precursor to the synthesis of dopamine in your brain. L-Tyrosine enhances working memory, executive function, creative flow states, reduces stress, improves mood and is anti-anxiety.Suggested dosage of L-Tyrosine or NALT for ADHD is 350- 500 mg twice per day. I successfully stack 500 mg of NALT or L-Tyrosine 3-times per day. Once each time I dose with Ritalin, and a last dose mid-afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash later in the day.
- Mucuna Pruriens (L-Dopa) – Mucuna works as an antioxidant and heavy metal chelator, improves memory & cognition, reduces depression and boosts libido.L-Dopa is also the direct precursor to dopamine. Suggested dosage of Mucuna Pruriens is 250 – 500 mg per day. But if you’re just starting out with nootropics, I highly recommend using L-Tyrosine or NALT instead of Mucuna Pruriens. Because Mucuna can be more difficult to dose since it directly stimulates the production of dopamine. L-Tyrosine and NALT are more ‘forgiving’ when it comes to dosage.
- N-Acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC) – NAC is an amino acid that regulates the amount of glutamate and dopamine in your brain.NAC can be used to address the symptoms of ADHD. And may even help eliminate some of the negative side effects associated with prescription ADHD stimulants. Suggested dosage of NAC is 600 mg 3-times per day.
- Phosphatidylserine (PS) – PS can help improve alertness, attention, cognition, memory, recall and mood, and lower anxiety. All issues associated with ADHD.Phosphatidylserine is a phospholipid component of the membrane encasing every one of your brain cells. PS helps maintain the fluidity and permeability of brain cells. Improving the flow of dopamine and acetylcholine. Suggested dosage of PS is 100 mg 3-times per day.
- Pine Bark Extract – Pine Bark extract helps prevent decreases in dopamine and norepinephrine. And the glutathione (GSH) and GSH-disulphide reductase (GSSG-R) ratio. Neurotransmitter problems which contribute to hyperactivity in ADHD.Pine Bark extract also helps boost blood flow in the brain by increasing nitric oxide which helps dilate blood vessels. And it helps reduce oxidative stress, membrane damage, DNA damage, inflammation, and glycation.I’ve found one of the most potent forms of Pine Bark extract comes in both Mind Lab Pro® and Performance Lab® Mind.
A word of caution here in boosting the catecholamines dopamine and norepinephrine. Too much of either is not a good thing. In fact, excess levels of either will throw your neurotransmitter levels out of balance. And can cause anxiety, insomnia and panic attacks.
Taming Hyperactivity with Nootropic Supplements
The “H” in ADHD stands for hyperactivity. Boosting levels of dopamine and norepinephrine can help balance out hyperactivity. And help calm and focus your mind. But often simply boosting or balancing these neurotransmitters is not enough.
Recent studies show that serotonin and dopamine interaction also play a role in ADHD.[ix] Serotonin is involved in the uptake, synthesis and breakdown of dopamine in your brain. Problems with serotonin seem to contribute to behavior and impulse control.
Much more research needs to be done in this area of ADHD. But we can help control and balance serotonin with nootropics.
- 5-HTP – This amino acid is synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan. And 5-HTP is the immediate precursor to serotonin in your brain.5-HTP can help relieve anxiety and depression, fibromyalgia, insomnia, migraines and likely the hyperactivity, depression and anxiety associated with ADHD. Suggested dosage of 5-HTP is 50 mg up to 3-times per day. Please see my dosage notes and warnings before you try supplementing with 5-HTP.
- Ginseng – Ginseng helps calm anxiety, and boost attention, concentration and memory. Ginseng provides neuro-protective effects on the dopaminergic-pathway which can help with ADHD. And ginseng is a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI).Suggested dosage of Ginseng is 100 – 400 mg per day.
- L-Theanine – L-Theanine commonly found in green tea helps boost alpha and theta brain waves, is anti-anxiety, boosts cognition and memory and reduces insomnia.L-Theanine also helps boost GABA, serotonin and dopamine levels in your brain. Suggested dosage of L-Theanine is 150 mg 2 – 3-times per day.
- Rhodiola Rosea – Rhodiola Rosea helps improve alertness, energy, memory and mood, is anti-anxiety and antidepressant, reduces fatigue and boosts memory and concentration.Rhodiola influences serotonin and norepinephrine levels in your brain. Suggested dosage of Rhodiola Rosea extract is 150 – 200 mg per day.
- Saffron – Saffron acts as a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. Similar to how Ritalin works. A randomized double-blind study was conducted with 54 children 6-17 years old who were given 20 – 30 mg methylphenidate or 20 – 30 mg Saffron per day for 6 weeks. At the end of the study researchers concluded, “Short-term therapy with a saffron capsule showed the same efficacy compared with methylphenidate.”Suggested dosage of Saffron is 30 mg per day.
- Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) – Vitamin B6 helps your brain make serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin. Suggested dosage of B6 is up to 100 mg per day.
- Vitamin B9 (Folate) – Folate (NOT folic acid) as a nootropic helps your brain make dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine and serotonin. Suggested dosage of Folate is 400 mcg per day.
- Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) – is a cofactor in the synthesis of neurotransmitters acetylcholine, dopamine, GABA, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Suggest dosage of B12 is 100 mcg per day.
B-Vitamins are Critical in Controlling ADHD
Take note that several of the B-Vitamin group are involved in the production of the neurotransmitters involved in ADHD. I recommend adding a good B-Vitamin Complex that include methylfolate (not folic acid) and methylcobalamin (not cyanocobalamin) to your stack. Both in a pure nootropic stack as well as when using any of the ADHD prescription stimulants.
But it’s not only the B-Vitamins that are required for a healthy, fully functioning brain. We also need each of the 13 vitamins and 13 minerals needed for everything from blood flow, neurotransmitter synthesis and release, brain signaling, and neuroprotection.
I’ve found the easiest way to make sure my ADD brain gets all the vitamins and minerals it needs every day is to also use a multivitamin/mineral supplement.
The best I’ve found so far is the multivitamin called Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi. It’s better than the “raw-food” multi I was using for years. And makes a difference I can actually feel.
But please note that this multi is in addition to a B-Vitamin Complex because the ADHD brain needs more of these critical nutrients than what is normally in any good multivitamin.
The Role of Acetylcholine in ADHD
Researchers at Vanderbilt University Medical Center discovered that there are three types of ADHD.
We’ve already covered the “inattentive” type that is related to issues with the norepinephrine transporter gene. And the link to the dopamine transporter gene in the “hyperactive and impulsive” type.
But the research team now report that a variation in the choline transporter gene is associated with a “combined” type of ADHD. Symptoms include both inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity.
Choline is required to synthesize acetylcholine (ACh) which is needed for memory, motor-control, focus, learning, concentration, and cognition.
If you have the “combined” type of ADHD it’s likely due to a mutation in this choline transporter gene variation.
Nootropics to boost acetylcholine include:
- ALCAR (Acetyl-L-Carnitine) – ALCAR donates a methyl group in the presence of Coenzyme-A for the synthesis of acetylcholine. And it’s also a shuttle transport for fatty acids through brain cell membranes. It shuttles fatty acids into mitochondria for ATP synthesis, and shuttles toxic byproducts out.
Research from the Linus Pauling Institute shows ALCAR will restore mitochondrial function, replenish age-related changes to mitochondrial structure, and helps replenish acetylcholine levels to your brain and body.
And other studies show that ALCAR stimulates nerve growth factor. Helping support survival and growth of neurons. Which is particularly important for the ADHD brain and especially when using prescription stimulants that may be tough on neurons.
- Alpha Lipoic Acid (R-LA) – Alpha Lipoic Acid increases acetylcholine production by activation of choline acetyltransferase and increases glucose uptake. This process supplies more Acetyl-CoA for the production of acetylcholine.
Alpha Lipoic Acid enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and metabolism for better brain cell performance. And R-Lipoic Acid provides strong antioxidant support because it helps regenerate and recycle existing antioxidants in your brain including Vitamins C & E, glutathione, and CoQ10.
I’ve since switched the ALCAR supplement in my ADD stack to Performance Lab® Energy because this pre-formulated energy stack contains my preferred dose of ALCAR. But note that I also take another 500 mg of ALCAR with L-Tyrosine late afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash.
Performance Lab® Energy also contains Alpha Lipoic Acid and ALCAR which helps my ADD brain produce acetylcholine.
- CDP-Choline (Citicoline) – Citicoline helps synthesize phosphatidylcholine (PC), a major phospholipid found in brain cell membranes. And provides choline for the synthesis of acetylcholine while providing antioxidant activity.
The CDP-Choline (Citicoline) in my ADD stack is supplied by Mind Lab Pro® which is the base of my nootropic stack.
But a suitable alternative to MLP is Performance Lab® Mind which contains the branded form of citicoline called Cognizin®.
Performance Lab® Mind and Mind Lab Pro® also contain L-Tyrosine, Phosphatidylserine (PS), and Maritime Pine Bark extract.
Repairing Neuroreceptors Needed to Control ADHD
One of the issues with neurotransmitters and ADHD are damaged or non-existent receptors. Dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin have less receptors to bind to for cognition and mood control.
Once again, nootropics come to the rescue in helping control ADHD. You can add one of these nootropics to your stack to help boost neuron and receptor health.
- Ashwagandha – This adaptogen, Ashwagandha helps reduce anxiety and depression. And helps reconstruct axons, dendrites and synapses involved in neurotransmitter signaling in your brain.Suggested dosage of Ashwagandha extract is 250 – 500 mg per day.
- Bacopa Monnieri – Bacopa helps boost memory and cognition, improves mood, and reduces stress. This adaptogen affects brain levels of acetylcholine needed for neurotransmitter signaling.And the two active components of Bacopa Monnieri called bacosides A and B not only improves signaling of electrical impulses between neurons in your brain. Bacosides also help rebuild damaged neurons. Suggested dosage of Bacopa is up to 450 mg per day.
- Lion’s Mane – Lion’s Mane Mushroom is known for stimulating Nerve Growth Factor, improving cognition and memory, and relieving depression.Lion’s Mane stimulates the repair and creation of neurons in your brain. Neurons needed for dopamine and norepinephrine to control ADHD. Suggested dosage of Lion’s Mane Mushroom starts at 500 mg per day. Note: that there’s an effective 500 mg dose of Lion’s Mane full-spectrum fruiting body in each dose of Mind Lab Pro®
- Noopept – Noopept helps boost cognition, memory, learning, perception, logical thinking and mood. Noopept increases Nerve Growth Factor, and Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) critical for neuroplasticity and Long-Term Potentiation critical for long-term memory.Noopept also prevents the release of excess glutamate in your brain. Providing potent neuroprotection for neurons and reducing damage. Suggested dosage of Noopept is 10 – 30 mg per day.
Please note that I haven’t linked through to supporting clinical studies for each of the nootropics I listed above. But you can click through to my full review of each nootropic for extensive research supporting each supplement.
Nootropics for Kids
ADHD and ADD is most often diagnosed in children. The latest statistics (2011) from the CDC in the USA shows about 11% of children 4 – 17 years of age (6.4 million) have been diagnosed ADHD.[x] And that’s just for the USA.
Although ADHD is usually first diagnosed in children, it often lasts into adulthood. I sometime wonder how my life would have been different if I had been declared ADD when I was a kid.
But it wasn’t until the late 1960’s that the American Psychiatric Association formally recognized ADHD as a mental health disorder. I wasn’t declared Adult ADD until much later.
The thing is many parents are wary about putting their children on powerful, prescription ADHD meds. Kids’ brains continue to develop until your early 20’s. So is it a problem messing with brain chemistry at such a young age? Only time will tell and if the benefits outweigh any potential risk.
Hence the reason why parents are looking for ‘natural’ alternatives like nootropics to treat ADHD in children. But are nootropic supplements any safer than prescription stimulants?
Common sense tells me that using L-Tyrosine could be safer than Ritalin for boosting dopamine. And Rhodiola Rosea could be safer than stimulants or antidepressants for taming hyperactivity.
But many children with ADHD, natural supplements may not be enough. I’m not a doctor, and don’t even play one on TV. I’m an ordinary biohacker who has learned as much as I can to help myself. And fix my own cognitive performance issues. Including Adult ADD.
So I highly recommend you find and work with an open-minded psychiatrist with your child. You may be pleasantly surprised to find you may be able to reduce or eliminate prescription ADHD meds altogether to enhance cognitive functions. And maybe not. But the long-term health of your child could be worth the time investment to find out.
In Summary
I’ve been wanting to write this post since I started Nootropics Expert®. If you are ADHD or ADD, I hope you found this useful. And I’d appreciate your feedback, and share your experience with treating ADHD with nootropics in the comments section of this post below.
Please share this post with anyone you think would benefit. Including discussions about nootropics for ADHD on reddit or Longecity.
One final note. Neurotransmitter balance is key to taming ADHD. I strongly caution you to take it slow if you’re just starting out with nootropics. Carefully read each of the extended articles in the List of Nootropics you are considering trying.
You need to be careful about side effects, prescription drug interactions, dosages and how your body reacts to each supplement to ensure healthy brain function.
But I’m confident that with careful planning and a long-term commitment, your cognitive enhancement will be just as successful as I have been in living and thriving with my Adult ADD.
Join The Discussion - 786 comments
Adele Veilleux
December 29, 2020
Hey there! Your page is phenomenal!! I was wondering if I should start this whole stack right away? I’ve been taking 40 mg Adderall instant release a day, (20 in the am then ten mg in the afternoon and evening) for a few months and right now I’m pretty inconsistent but I take magnesium, fish oil and L-Lysine daily. Should I jump right into the full stack?
David Tomen
December 30, 2020
Adele, I do not normally recommend the someone “jump right into the full stack”. Because if one supplement in that stack backfires on you, you’ll not know which one caused the problem. So please keep that in mind.
The basics of this stack are 500 mg L-Tyrosine, 300 mg Alpha GPC, and 500 mg ALCAR each time you use Adderall.
You also need 1,000 mg DHA (NOT fish oil) in the morning along with Mind Lab Pro.
And 400 mg magnesium before bed.
Adele Veilleux
January 2, 2021
Thank you!!! I’ve pretty much been studying your information and each nootropic since the message, what are your thoughts on Tryptophan?
David Tomen
January 4, 2021
Adele, everything I know about Tryptophan is here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/tryptophan/. It’s the best and safest way to boost serotonin that we have. And is particularly important if you’re boosting dopamine. Because those two must be in balance.
Adele Veilleux
January 8, 2021
I just got my order from Nootropic Depot, but I bought L-Tyrosine and not NALT. I do have Mind Lab Pro on the way, I think you said it is in that as well? I’m confused about the DHA recommendation. You said not fish oil, but most DHA I can find has EPA in it and is labelled fish oil. I recently was talking to someone and she said she takes Sea Buckthorn, which has all the fatty acids in it. Have you come across any research about that? It seems research is very limited, but what are your thoughts on all the fatty acids together? I am so excited to start this, I took my dose of Adderall and with it I took the Tyrosine and ALCAR, tomorrow morning i will take the Alpha GPC with it as well as my normal doses of magnesium, vitamin D, glucosamine chondroitin, fish oil (it’s labeled fish oil but has 1000 mg EPA/DHA), Turmeric (I am going to get the kind you mentioned that is curcumin with the added ingredient to help bioavailability), L-Lysine ( I take it for my skin but are there any other benefits of taking it?) and a vitamin B combo. Any thoughts on those in combination with AGPC, tyrosine and ALCAR with mind pro?
David Tomen
January 8, 2021
Adele, I’ve had good success using L-Tyrosine with Mind Lab Pro.
And no confusion about DHA. Your brain is made up of about 60% fat. And most of the fat is DHA. DHA comes from Algae. That’s where fish get it from. Better to use a supplement with 1,000 mg DHA and less EPA. My favorite now is the Performance Lab Omega-3 which provides 900 mg DHA in 3 gelcaps (https://bit.ly/3kgtQ12).
And sorry but have not done the research on L-Lysine.
Adele
January 10, 2021
David, how do you deal with taking all these supplements every day? I find with my adhd it feels like a process to take them all.
David Tomen
January 10, 2021
Adele, my attitude is I’m willing to do whatever it takes for me to feel good and perform at a level that makes me happy. So I don’t give it much thought.
I know what I need to take in the morning, at noon, later in the afternoon, and before bed to keep up this level of performance. And feel good. It’s a habit now and I think a “happy habit”. 🙂
Adele
January 10, 2021
Oh, and I meant to ask what do you think about racetams while being on adhd medication?
David Tomen
January 10, 2021
Adele, I think racetams are a valuable tool that’s available to us if we need them. I personally have found Aniracetam combined with Sulbutiamine to be the best antidepressant I’ve ever used.
I’ve tried other racetams and none of them work as well for me as Aniracetam. And it does not conflict with nor is contraindicated with the Ritalin I use every day.
Adele
January 12, 2021
Hi again!!! I never mentioned that i have diagnosed depression as well, and I do not want to take antidepressants any longer, and have been completely off them for a while now. However, my depression obviously hasn’t gone away. While taking a stimulant for my adhd has helped a little, I do still suffer from the depression. I’m looking into subutimate (I don’t remember the name of it lol) and aniracetam, but with the adhd stack and a stimulant medication, how would you alter the stack for depression?
David Tomen
January 13, 2021
Adele, I use 750 mg Aniracetam + 200 mg Sulbutiamine in the morning and again at noon. And this combo is the best antidepressant I’ve ever used. Not sure it will work for you but it’s worth trying.
AAdele
January 17, 2021
Hey again! So I added Mind Lab Pro to my stack and it increased my anxiety tremendously. I’m wondering if the NALT in combination with the 500 mg of Tyrosine is too much? I’m going to order the multi that you suggest but I’m a little concerned about anxiety levels. Any ideas?
David Tomen
January 17, 2021
Adele, if Mind Lab Pro causes anxiety in you then you shouldn’t be using it. Unless you were using it with 500 mg L-Tyrosine. If so I suggest trying Mind Lab Pro without extra L-Tyrosine. If Mind Lab Pro works but doesn’t cause anxiety on its own then you know it was excess dopamine or norepinephrine.
Adele
January 19, 2021
I did add 500 Tyrosine with Mind Lab Pro. That must have been the issue. ALCAR and Alpha GPC wouldn’t cause anxiety would they?
David Tomen
January 22, 2021
Adele, ALCAR and Alpha GPC do not usually cause anxiety. If it happened it would be ALCAR first with Alpha GPC a distant second.
Adele
February 2, 2021
Hey David,
So after a couple weeks of Tyrosine 500 mg 2/daily, Theanine 200 mg 2/day, Alpha GPC 150 once a day and ALCAR 500 once or twice daily, I realized I had become very depressed. I cut out Mind Lab Pro because I was having panic attacks, and then slowly cut out Tyrosine, as I was still having panic and agitation. Is it possible that I was boosting my dopamine levels too high, therefore causing an imbalance in dopamine and serotonin, and causing a depressive episode?
David Tomen
February 2, 2021
Adele, yes, that could be what was happening. Dopamine and serotonin must be in balance. So if you are increasing dopamine you need to also increase serotonin. Otherwise it’ll suppress serotonin. And could result in the symptoms you describe.
Adele
February 3, 2021
What do you recommend for serotonin? And if I start a serotonin booster, should I start taking the Tyrosine again? I just want to also say that I think it’s absolutely incredible that you respond to everyone and how helpful you are. I talk about you all the time when I’m talking to people about nootropics lol. I’m also buying your book.
David Tomen
February 3, 2021
Adele, you may be able to safely boost serotonin without upsetting dopamine. But it depends on how your system deals with these supplements.
Using 500 mg L-Tryptophan before bed should not throw things out of balance.
Ryker
December 22, 2020
Hi hi hi. I’m desperately trying to see if I accidentally created a perfect storm for an absolutely terrifying serotonin hollowing-out. I’ve been following your page for a while and would massively appreciate any thoughts you might have.
I was diagnosed with severe combination ADHD 3 months ago. I started on Vyvanse 20mg 4 weeks ago. I was supporting it with NALT, between 700mg-2100mg a day & L-Theanine (800mg a day). + Citicholine, Curcuramin, Methylfolate (as Quatrefolic), Methyl B12, Vit D, Niacin, DHA, EPA, Magnesium Acetyltaurinate & Zinc Picolinate.
I had previously tried Concerta and hated it, felt like I was going to explode, I already have severe ADHD, and it felt like I somehow even MORE severe ADHD (!). Vyvanse was much better. Couldn’t task switch easily still but could work (hyperfocus – I draw) more readily and the constant spinning thoughts and looping fixations were much quieter. The only bad thing was that… i felt like… how you’d feel on a tough job, like, i had a bit of constant background feeling of “Holding my nerve” like “I will need a big holiday at the end of this” kind of feeling. Ok, so not perfect (I want to task switch and it’s quieter but not gone etc etc) but not a bad start to titration. Importantly, I was quite calm.
I have a menstrual cycle. Suddenly in the week before my period, everything collapsed. I do certainly have bad PMS but this was the mother of all PMSs. I became very suddenly completely suicidal, I was screaming constantly, crying like a fountain, yelling over the phone to my best friend who was very patient. Very suicidal. It was depressed, but a focussed energetic, resolved depression, furious, and also absolutely terrifying. Like I had no choice but to kill myself. This…. this is not…. a normal PMS. (!!!!)
This is my theory. The serotonin collapsed. I live alone. Lockdown etc means no one had come to visit. No hugs. No pets. I worked all month on the Vyvanse. Slept soundly, but didn’t sleep much. Hardly ever tasked switch so no walks, no exercise. Locked down at home. Same sights, same walls. Appetite down, ate a lot less. Allll the regular serotonin-helping activities were out. I had been supporting dopamine with the Vyvanse AND with the daily NALT and even the Cucuramin too which overtips the balance? And so maybe the straw that broke the camel’s back was that naturally hormonally serotonin buckles anyway in the late stage of the menstrual cycle.
Last 2 days I don’t know how but I’ve gotten a hold of myself, put a hypothesis together that the serotonin just collapsed. Am still taking the Vyvanse but I stopped the NALT, took L-Theanine, 5HTP & St John’s Wort for the first time ever & inositol. The suicidal/fury stuff has completely stopped. Also the worst of the natural cyclical hormonal serotonin drop should be over now anyway as I approach Day 1 of my new cycle (today or tomorrow). I do have a headache and I felt a bit nauseous yesterday (both unusual) but I feel I’m back to “normal”.
1) sorry this is so long 2) sorry to be so open with the exact days of my menstrual cycle!! 3) i see so SO little info out there about balancing ADHD with the natural neurotransmitter changes of the menstrual cycle – (which is particularly frustrating because there seems to be a big overlap with bad PMS/PMDD sufferers & ADHD diagnosis) so I’m really desperate to find out anything I can so this doesn’t happen again next cycle.
Do you have any thoughts on whether my hypothesis of the serotonin depletion might have been correct, or do you suspect something else might have happened? Any ideas on how to avoid this crash next cycle – it was…. absolutely terrifying for me and my family/friends – or any resources would be so massively massively appreciated.
Thanks so much
Ryker
David Tomen
December 22, 2020
Ryker, dopamine and serotonin MUST be in balance. If you increase dopamine too much it will depress serotonin. And vice versa.
You were taking much too high a dose of NALT and L-Theanine. And you’re likely correct that you suppressed serotonin far too much. And likely too much Citicoline as well although that’s not clear in your note.
If you want to try this again I suggest 300 mg NALT in the morning and at noon. An optional dose at 4 PM to prevent the stimulant crash. Don’t increase NALT any higher than 500 mg per dose although I don’t think you need that much. Because 100 mg L-Theanine is also increasing dopamine.
And you need 500 mg ALCAR each time you use Citicoline too because L-Carnitine is cofactor in acetylcholine synthesis. As is Thiamine. It would be better if you dropped the individual vitamins (with the exception of Vitamin D) and used a high quality multivitamin instead.
And 500 mg L-Tryptophan before bed to raise your serotonin levels.
ABC123
November 27, 2020
Hello Mr Tomen,
congratulations for your great work.I take 18 mg Concerta daily (methylphenidate extended release) ,along with NAC andL-Tyrosine.I would like a bit more of a boost.Should I got to 36mg daily or add selegiline 5mg which provides neuroprotective benefits also?
David Tomen
November 28, 2020
Selegiline is an monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) inhibitor. You could try that. Or go the natural route and use something like Oat Straw extract (https://nootropicsexpert.com/oat-straw/) which is also an MAOI-B. There are others that act on both A and B as well. Search this site using the search function above the top menu. And search for (MAOI).
Luke
November 16, 2020
David, thank you so much for your work here! There is no telling how many people’s lives you have improved. I am 26 years old, and I have made leaps and bounds in tackling my chronic ADHD the past couple months. I had a question for you regarding my stack. Here it is:
Taken with empty stomach/Coconut Oil (like you):
* Citicoline: 250mg
* Phosphatylserine: 100mg
* Tyrosine: 500mg (3 times per day)
* Theanine: 150mg
* DHA: 1g
* B-Complex
* Bacopa: 320mg
* Alpha GPC: 300mg
* Lithium Orotate: 5mg
* Rhodiola Rosea: 250mg
* Pine Bark Extract: 150mg
* ALCAR: 500mg
* Vinpocetine (cerebral blood flow): 10mg, twice per day
* Lion’s Mane: 500mg, twice per day
* PQQ: 20mg
* COQ10: 100mg
* Alpha Lipoic Acid: 150mg
* NAC: 500mg
* Sulbutiamine, 200mg
* Adderall, IR 5mg
* Aniracetam, 750mg, twice per day
* Carnosine, 500mg, twice per day
First, do you think this stack is safe and not overdoing it? My second question is related to the low dose of Adderall. I have read that low doses of amphetamines can have negative receptor desensitization effects (https://www.reddit.com/r/adderall/comments/8fhbdd/can_someone_explain_microdosing/). Do you think 5mg of Adderall could be a problem. I am sensitive to amphetamines and for health reasons want the dosage to be as low as possible.
David Tomen
November 16, 2020
Luke, I don’t think you are “overdoing it”. Everything that you are using is benefiting your brain. And certainly supporting the tiny amount of Adderall you are using.
I just don’t see any benefit to microdosing amphetamines. If you are clinically ADHD and would do better using regular doses of Adderall that would make more sense.
BUT, I have tested this stack for a year while taking a stimulant holiday and it worked very well. It should work even better for you since you’re younger than I. Have you tried this stack while not using Adderall?
PKN
October 30, 2020
Dear David
Below my Stack for super noortropic I’m i missing any thing or Am’I included too many things, pls suggest;
1 CDP Choline (Citicoline) 150 mg
2 Alpha GPC:(m+) 600mg
3 Phosphatidylserine (PS), 100mg
4 Omega-3/DHA (m+) 1000mg
5 N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) * 175mg
6 L-Theanine 100 mg
7 Caffeine (m+) 100 mg
8 Lion’s Mane 500mg
9 Bacopa 200mg
10 Rhodiola Rosea 50mg
11 Maritime Pine Bark Extract 75 mg
12 Vinpocetine 5mg
13 B-Vitamin Complex
14 Ginkgo Biloba 100mg
15 Huperine A 250mcg
Should I add Uridine??
Regards
David Tomen
October 31, 2020
PKN, good stack but you should only use Huperzine-A every 2nd or 3rd day because it has a 24 hr. half life.
No need to ad Uridine.
And do you realize that you can get most of those ingredients at the dosage you are using in Mind Lab Pro? (https://bit.ly/3lh3w8a)
Danny Kim
October 30, 2020
Hello, I really appreciate your effort to help people with ADHD like me.
Right now, I am taking Concerta (45mg), Indenol (reduce heart beat and anxiety 10mg) , and anti depressant (5mg) .
Will it be ok for me to take Mind lab pro , Uridine Monophosphate, Alpha-GPC, OMEGA – 3 , Sulbutiamin, Aniracetam , and multivitamins (SuperImmune) together?? Is there any pills that I should eliminate?
David Tomen
October 30, 2020
Danny, there is nothing in Mind Lab Pro that is reported to be contraindicated with the meds you are using. But that does not mean they are safe.
Here’s a suggestion. Use your meds like you normally take them. Then try each nootropic you mentioned one at a time. The only exception is Aniracetam which needs to be taken with Alpha GPC. And see how you feel. If you get a bad reaction then you’ll know which one shouldn’t be used.
You are entering into unexplored territory here so to be safe, when you do test each supplement, make sure you use the lowest dose to start.
Danny
December 23, 2020
Wow that is a really good way to do the experiment. Thank you very much !!
Thomas
October 29, 2020
Hello David. I have tried out a couple of nootropics before coming across your articles, and this in combination with ADHD medication.
But I must say I’m deeply troubled over whatever is going on.
I had only taken a few slurps of water mixed with one (4-500 mg) dose of N-acetyl L-tyrosine, more than an hour of after taking my medication, but without any wild exagerations I get jumpy, shaky, anxious and inactive like.
This makes me baffled at the notion “You can safely use up to 2,000 mg per day when stacking with ADHD meds”, and wonder how this can be easy for others taking these supplements.
I have a history of inconsistent effects from my medication. When it works, it’s wonderful and just what I need to proceed with all the mess in my life. But it changes how.
Some others have pointed out that IgG (food intolerances) and poor gut health are also major causes of treatment failure. As well as some insights about acidic meals interacting with the medication (citric acid, grapefruit). This also makes the whole ordeal an insane puzzle to deal with, with no clue on what buttons to turn up or down.
But how can so little amounts of NALT feel so horrid? This makes no sense.
After feeling deeply uncomfortable and nervous, I was thinking this must be an unbalanced high degree of thyroid/dopaminergic end of the scale – end then I took some L-Tryptophan mixed with water, also only a few slurps of one dose. First moment I felt a little better, but then I felt nervous and shaky AGAIN.
Can these bad effects come from not waiting enough before/after eating when taking L-tyrosine / L-tryptophan? Or from taking it too close to the medication?
I just don’t know what to do.
David Tomen
October 29, 2020
Thomas, it sounds like you are one of the few unfortunate ones who are extremely sensitive to supplements. You can try 250 mg NALT and see how you feel. But if you end up with the same type of reaction it’s time to find out what is causing this.
I can understand why you are “deeply troubled”. That should be motivation enough to get to the bottom of this and fix it.
If it is a leaky gut, you can use this article I wrote about fixing a leaky brain which amounts to the same thing: https://nootropicsexpert.com/how-to-heal-a-leaky-blood-brain-barrier/.
I suggest trying that first and see if it helps. It’ll take awhile to produce results. But you’ve been dealing with this for decades. I think 2 or 3 months is worth the effort in comparison.
If that doesn’t work then report back and we’ll try something else.
Thomas
October 31, 2020
Hey David and thanks for the great response.
Well if I’m sensitive to neuro-supplements I should probably also be sensitive to medication? Which I definitely believe and would say I am. First time I got on dextroamphetamine I had tremendous experiences from just 5mg – and most attempts to adjust the dose up often had me experiencing bad side effects, even though I sometimes didn’t get the effect from the previous dose.
I did try something akin to 200 og maybe 100 mg of the water mixed with NAL-tyrosine, but if being sensitive to medication and also being on 40mg Elvanse (Vyvanse in DK), maybe that’s what did the tripping and made me so deeply uncomfortable.
Could it also be that it overloads like that and cause paranoia/anxiety/brain-‘crash’ by taking the NALT-water TOO SOON after the medicine?
Believe me, that motivation is there and has already been there for about 1½ year. I’ve been digging and researching for much more than 2-3 months trying to find the culprit(s) for my various reactions in terms of foods, hydration, chemical combinations, nootropics, pH, etc. and it’s been insane and gone in circles despite following same procedures, a.o.
An IgG lab test (‘ImuPro’) turned up this summer though, claiming I apparently have 71 food intolerances and I think leaky gut was indicated. So there’s that.
Still going about my kitchen emptying the last foods that contain any of the many ingredients/items as we speak, as there’s so many – but I’m checking out the article on the double and will try that out. Thanks so far.
David Tomen
November 2, 2020
Thomas, I wish you the best in getting to the bottom of this. And then getting it fixed. I’m convinced it’s possible. But it may take awhile and much trial and error on your way there.
Thomas
January 24, 2021
Hello David.
After more months of research, I’ve figured out I also have a respiratory illness (think it was chronic rhinitis).
I almost cleared my kitchen of any IgG-triggering foods. And I read the article.
BUT I still need to ask: Is it really a good idea to take L-Tyrosine together with medication? From many proficient accounts, it’s suggested to take food before ADHD medication. But NALT is suggested to take on an empty stomach. How do those two go together?
And if I experience any sort of ‘brain crash’, anxiety or discomfort from taking L-tyrosine – what do I counteract this with? L-tryptophan?? (Which is suggested to take at night!) This still conflicts me.
David Tomen
January 25, 2021
Thomas, L-Tyrosine is an amino acid. And if you take it with food the amino acids in your food will compete for the same transporters. So you may not get the full benefit of using L-Tyrosine. ADHD medication is not fat-soluble so does not need to taken with food to improve bioavailability.
L-Tyrosine makes dopamine. Dopamine and serotonin must be in balance. So if you raise dopamine too much it depresses serotonin. Resulting in the symptoms of not enough serotonin. That’s why when using 500 mg L-Tyrosine 3-times per day it is beneficial to use 500 mg L-Tryptophan before bed. Because it helps increase serotonin which we need to do to maintain this balance.
Thomas
May 5, 2021
Hello David, sorry for gravedigging like this. Life’s a serious overdistracted mess over here.
OK, I understand the part about water/fat-solution. But isn’t it still important to have a meal with the ADHD *meds* or at least after taking them? Many insert reads and experts suggest to take the medication with food. Including here (just a couple I could relocate):
I have also felt my mind ‘crashing’ very heavily when not eating AND/OR drinking enough with medication, with extreme discomfort as a result. This from low blood sugar and unfelt dehydration, which happens quicker because the stimulant medication ‘burns the fuel’ faster.
And I actually do supplement with L-Tryptophan or HTP-5, 500 mg. Felt no difference from that. Isn’t it maybe too far, from the time of taking the tyrosine, to take them at night?
As another thing, I’ve seemed to experience some psychotic symptoms when mixing L-tyrosine with my medication several days. Usually from taking the powder-version of L-ty (free form), no the capsule-kind. And I often mixed it with more than 50 ml water per serving. Any clues?
I thought I read here the tyro-limit to be around 500 mg… It says on my bottle of (free form) L-Tyrosine capsules (500 mg each) to take 2 to 3 a day.
Healthline go as far as stating to take 500-2000 daily or “100–150 mg per kg” of body weight.
David Tomen
May 6, 2021
Thomas, sorry but I deleted the links in your message because I do not appreciate sending any who make it here to another person’s website.
I am NOT going to repeat myself so read my comment above. Unless your ADHD meds give you an upset stomach there is no practical reason to take it with food.
Stimulant medication is eventually depleted from your system. If you do not support its use with L-Tyrosine you will crash. Sure, you can also experience a sugar crash or dehydration is you don’t drink enough fluids. But low blood sugar and dehydration are different and have nothing to do with depleted dopamine.
You should not “feel a difference” by using L-Tryptophan to keep serotonin and dopamine in balance. You should just feel normal. The amount varies from person to person. There is no set ratio. You use what works for you to keep you in balance. L-Tryptophan is usually taken before bed because it also makes melatonin. Taken during the day is likely to make you sleepy.
Anyone who tells you to use 2,000 mg L-Tryptophan has no idea what they are talking about. I just had a consultation with a gentleman in UAE. And he could not figure out what he felt angry every day for no reason. Until I discovered 2 grams L-Tryptophan in the protein powder he was using daily for workouts. He stopped using the protein powder and the anger magically went away.
Thomas
May 12, 2021
Hi. Sorry for that then. Will bear in mind.
I *know* you said to not take L-tyrosine with food. I was talking of the significance of food for the brain on ADHD medication.
It increases metabolism, right? (Why weight loss is a side effect.) It burns glucose faster, from what I see. And from that I think I’ve sometimes experienced my head ‘crashing’. Or losing my cognitive function in some mentally painful way.
Sometimes mixing tyrosine with the meds have felt similar to that.
Both tyrosine and ADHD stimulants increase dopamine and noradrenaline in the brain, so if the culprit lies there, I wonder why the 500mg L-tryptophan didn’t seem to help it much.
I meant “a difference” from the peril I was describing.
Yes, it shouldn’t be taken during day. But if one gets excess dopamine in their system, shouldn’t they try to counter during the same hours? THAT’s what I meant to ask. ‘At night’ is far ahead from that.
OK, so 3×500 mg is max for tyro, like my bottle says. Interesting anecdote. Was it pre-included in the protein powder, that amount?
David Tomen
May 13, 2021
Thomas, yes it was included in the protein powder in that amount. I’m going to suggest something that I don’t normally because many get carried away and overdo it.
But if you need to counter what feels like excess dopamine or norepinephrine get 100 mg lozenges of 5-HTP. Use a pill splitter and cut it into quarters. When you feel that reaction coming on put 25 mg 5-HTP under your tongue. It will instantly boost serotonin to counter the dopamine. But do not overdo it or you’ll upset the balance of dopamine and serotonin.
Dana Cardwell
October 23, 2020
David!!! I love this! I, too, have been interested in Nootropics and was a GT ADHD student for years. In my 20’s things were bad, and a dr put me on antidepressants… big mistake… after taking 4 that didn’t help, the one, odd one w norepinephrine helped somewhat. But I couldn’t get off of them!! Finally got off of antidepressants after 20 years and my ADD was off the charts. After a year of supplements, I needed more and went on Adderall. I was finally “normal “; however, I noticed that I need to supplement with 5-HTP and Tryptophan to sleep well at night and for my mood.
Dana Cardwell
October 23, 2020
PS… Tyrosine didn’t keep me focused. I did feel better with 200mg 5-HTP 2-3x day when I wasn’t taking Adderall or antidepressants. I find the Adderall helps my mood AND brain focus. Also, name brand XR Adderall isn’t good for me only generic XR or immediate release name brand. It’s so interesting our brains and each little receptor and synapse how it/ they react to different compounds. Take care.
David Tomen
October 23, 2020
Dana, the key to success with nootropics is experimenting because each of us is different in many ways. But please be careful with such a high dose of 5-HTP. Because if you use it regularly and long-term it will stop providing any benefit. I’ve seen this time and time again in user reviews and clinical studies. It likely happens because excess serotonin depresses dopamine.