Depending on the severity of your ADHD symptoms, you may be able to use nootropics as an alternative to prescription stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse and their variations.
I experimented for a year by using nootropics in place of the 20 mg of Ritalin I had been using 3-times a day for several years. And for the most part, I was successful in taming my Adult ADD symptoms.
Table of Contents
Adult ADD Nootropic Stack
The ADD/ADHD stack I use includes:
- Mind Lab Pro
- Performance Lab® Energy – twice per day
- Alpha GPC – 300 mg 3-times per day
- ALCAR – 750 mg 1-time per day
- L-Tyrosine – 500 mg 3-times per day
- Sulbutiamine – 400 mg twice per day
- Aniracetam – 750 mg twice per day
- Vinpocetine – 10 mg 3-times per day
- Performance Lab® Omega-3 – 3 gelcaps per day
- 1 tablespoon unrefined Coconut Oil or MCT Oil– 3-times per day
- Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi – 4 caps per day
During my one-year stimulant holiday, the ingredients in Mind Lab Pro along with L-Tyrosine and ALCAR (included in Performance Lab Energy) kept my dopamine, norepinephrine, and acetylcholine levels high enough to maintain focus, motivation and improve my memory. Vinpocetine kept my brain blood flow at optimal levels. And Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine improved my mood.
But after a year I decided to go back to using 20 mg of Ritalin twice per day. Because my workload had me writing 10 hours per day. And maintaining working relationships with 2 or 3 clients at once.
By adding Ritalin back to my stack I was able to reduce the time it would take to complete a project from 3 days to 1 ½ days. Proof to me that my brain couldn’t make it with nootropics alone.
The beauty of continuing to use L-Tyrosine and ALCAR even after I started using Ritalin again was that I avoided the stimulant “crash” that is so common late afternoon when using stimulants. And I was able to reduce the original 20 mg Ritalin 3-times per day down to only twice per day.
And I have not experienced building up tolerance to Ritalin that is so common when using stimulants to treat ADD or ADHD.
Your situation may be different, or ADHD symptoms not as severe. Only you can decide if nootropics can replace ADHD meds. The stack I describe on this page is designed to be used with or without stimulant meds.
Whether you use this stack with meds or without, you’ll need to discover for yourself what dosages of each nootropic are ideal for you. Because the amounts that work for me may not work as well for you. You may need less NALT and/or ALCAR.
Experimenting is the key to success with nootropics. And knowing as much as you can about what’s going on in your brain that needs to be fixed. But after many years of recommending this ADHD nootropic stack to people just like us around the world, we know this works.
The pre-made nootropic stacks mentioned in this post include:
Prescription “Smart Drugs” vs. Nootropics for ADHD
This post is in response to many emails and questions I’ve been getting about how to treat Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) with nootropics.
So if you are dealing with ADHD, hopefully this post will help. Especially if you are using stimulants like Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse, Focalin, or any of the other stimulant prescribed for ADD/ADHD. Or you are trying to deal with ADHD naturally by avoiding prescription stimulants.
This information can also help if you are a student or executive who uses prescription “smart drugs” like Adderall or Modafinil to boost productivity.
Here we’ll dig into the causes of ADHD or ADD in your brain. Symptoms associated with ADHD. And what you can do using nootropics, or nootropics stacked with stimulants to correct ADHD symptoms.
I’ll also include ways to potentiate the effectiveness of prescription stimulants with nootropics so they work better.
If you’ve never ‘officially’ been diagnosed with ADHD, but some of this resonates with you, you could be ADHD or ADD. And this may point you to some answers.
I’ve been ADD all my life. (ADD is ADHD without the hyperactivity). But it wasn’t until about 14 years ago, that a very wise psychiatrist identified what was going on. And why I had been struggling with focus and other problems with behavior. That no amount of self-help books on focus and management could ever correct.
Ritalin turned the lights on for me. And completely changed my life for the better. This was the seed that sprouted my interest in neuroscience and nootropics. And ultimately launching NootropicsExpert.com.
What is ADHD & ADD?
Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) are associated with attention and executive function in your brain.
Your prefrontal cortex directs behavior, thought and feeling which are all associated with working memory. These fundamental cognitive abilities that most “healthy” people take for granted, are what make up executive function.
This executive function and working memory give you the ability to:
- Regulate your attention
- Inhibit inappropriate behavior and thought
- Monitor your actions
- Plan and organize your future
If you can’t focus on the task at hand, blurt things out at inappropriate times, have little control over your emotions or actions, and can’t seem to stick to that careful set of goals you wrote down, you may be ADHD.
The Role of Norepinephrine and Dopamine in ADHD
Norepinephrine and dopamine are the primary neurotransmitters involved in ADHD because they play an essential role in attention and thinking.[i]
The “inattentive” type of ADHD is related to issues with the norepinephrine, and the “hyperactive and impulsive” type of ADHD is linked to dopamine dysfunction.
These two neurotransmitters work in concert to maintain alertness, increase focus, sustain thought, effort, and motivation. The only difference between the two is the presence of a hydroxyl group. And dopamine is the precursor to norepinephrine synthesis in your brain.[ii]
Much of what we read about ADHD focuses on dopamine’s function in your brain. But norepinephrine (NE) plays a critical role in activating your reaction to events. And how you respond to the event.[iii] NE is essential for collecting information coming in through your senses. And then modulating your brain’s response.
Any disruption in this NE system can result in ADHD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), sleep disorders and more.[iv]
For example, NE working with postsynaptic α2-adrenoceptors (α2-AR) in your brain play an essential role in helping you focus and eliminate distractions when you’re paying attention to something.[v]
This is just one example of what goes wrong in the ADHD brain. My point in bringing this all up is not to overwhelm you with neuroscience.
But to make clear that simply suggesting too much or too little of a single neurotransmitter like dopamine cannot explain the complexity of ADHD.
So using a nootropic like Mucuna Pruriens (L-Dopa) to amp up dopamine in your brain is often not enough to take care of ADHD symptoms. Or using Adderall with someone who has a problem with alpha2-receptor binding with norepinephrine may not get much benefit.
This is the reason that experimenting with various stimulants and/or nootropics is often the only way to find a long-term solution to keeping ADHD under control. And why some respond better to a drug like Ritalin and not as well to Adderall. Or vice versa.[vi]
And recent research shows serotonin and acetylcholine are involved too. Mostly the “hyperactivity” part of ADHD which includes movement, inattention, and impulsivity.[vii]
Smart Drugs Used to Treat ADHD
If you are truly and clinically ADHD or ADD, it is unlikely that optimizing your diet, getting plenty of sleep, using nootropics, and exercising regularly will get the symptoms of ADHD under control.
The most severe forms of ADHD often benefit from using prescription medication. Otherwise known as “smart drugs” in some circles, these meds are typically amphetamines or methylphenidate.
The amphetamine-class of ADHD medications includes Adderall (75% dextroamphetamine salts and 25% levoamphetamine salts), Dextroamphetamine, and Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine).
The methylphenidate-class of ADHD medications includes methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its variants like Concerta, and Focalin.
Adderall and Ritalin both work with dopamine and norepinephrine in your brain. But through different mechanisms of action.
Ritalin is a pure uptake inhibitor of dopamine and norepinephrine without any other presynaptic activity.[viii] Adderall on the other hand, has additional presynaptic activity, releasing dopamine and norepinephrine from presynaptic neurons.
The idea for the last 50 years or so, has been if we could boost dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain, ADHD symptoms would go away. As long as we’re taking the medication.
Why Prescription ADHD Meds Often Don’t Work
In an ideal world, taking one pill 2 or 3 times a day to treat ADHD would put your life back on track. And help you function like a ‘normal’ person.
But real-world results often don’t work out as well as theory. For several reasons. For example, what if there’s not enough dopamine or norepinephrine in your brain in the first place? Then stimulants will not work as well as planned because they haven’t the neurotransmitters in place to work with.
You could also have problems with not enough or damaged neuroreceptors. Natural aging processes can slow blood flow or inhibit the production of neurotransmitters. A lack of acetylcholine could prevent your neurotransmitters from doing what they were designed to do.
This is where nootropics can help save the day in treating the symptoms of ADHD.
Optimizing Dopamine & Norepinephrine
One of main culprits contributing to ADHD symptoms is a lack of dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) in your brain. Or your brain is not using the available DA and NE effectively.
Stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin work to boost levels of these two critical neurotransmitters.
Production of dopamine and norepinephrine in your body follows this metabolic pathway:
Phenylalanine → Tyrosine → L-DOPA → Dopamine → Norepinephrine
Dopamine is converted to norepinephrine by the enzyme dopamine β-monooxygenase, with O2 and ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) as cofactors.
Norepinephrine can be further converted into epinephrine by the enzyme phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase with SAM-e as cofactor.
Nootropics to boost dopamine and norepinephrine include:
- L-Tyrosine – L-Tyrosine is the precursor to the synthesis of dopamine in your brain. L-Tyrosine enhances working memory, executive function, creative flow states, reduces stress, improves mood and is anti-anxiety.
Suggested dosage of L-Tyrosine or NALT for ADHD is 350- 500 mg twice per day. I successfully stack 500 mg of NALT or L-Tyrosine 3-times per day. Once each time I dose with Ritalin, and a last dose mid-afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash later in the day.
- Mucuna Pruriens (L-Dopa) – Mucuna works as an antioxidant and heavy metal chelator, improves memory & cognition, reduces depression and boosts libido.
L-Dopa is also the direct precursor to dopamine. Suggested dosage of Mucuna Pruriens is 250 – 500 mg per day. But if you’re just starting out with nootropics, I highly recommend using L-Tyrosine or NALT instead of Mucuna Pruriens. Because Mucuna can be more difficult to dose since it directly stimulates the production of dopamine. L-Tyrosine and NALT are more ‘forgiving’ when it comes to dosage.
- N-Acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC) – NAC is an amino acid that regulates the amount of glutamate and dopamine in your brain.
NAC can be used to treat the symptoms of ADHD. And even helps eliminate some of the negative side effects associated with prescription ADHD stimulants. Suggested dosage of NAC is 600 mg 3-times per day.
- NADH – NADH helps increase alertness, clarity, focus, memory and enhances mood.
NADH also helps stimulate the production of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin in your brain. Suggested dosage of NADH is 10 mg per day.
- Phosphatidylserine (PS) – PS can help improve alertness, attention, cognition, memory, recall and mood, and lower anxiety. All issues associated with ADHD.
Phosphatidylserine is a phospholipid component of the membrane encasing every one of your brain cells. PS helps maintain the fluidity and permeability of brain cells. Improving the flow of dopamine and acetylcholine. Suggested dosage of PS is 100 mg 3-times per day.
- Pine Bark Extract – Pine Bark extract helps prevent decreases in dopamine and norepinephrine. And the glutathione (GSH) and GSH-disulphide reductase (GSSG-R) ratio. Neurotransmitter problems which contribute to hyperactivity in ADHD.
Pine Bark extract helps boost blood flow in the brain by increasing nitric oxide which helps dilate blood vessels. And it helps with oxidative stress, membrane damage, DNA damage, inflammation, and glycation.
I’ve found one of the most potent forms of Pine Bark extract comes in both Mind Lab Pro® and Performance Lab® Mind.
A word of caution here in boosting the catecholamines dopamine and norepinephrine. Too much of either is not a good thing. In fact, excess levels of either will throw your neurotransmitter levels out of balance. And can cause anxiety, insomnia and panic attacks.
Taming Hyperactivity
The “H” in ADHD stands for hyperactivity. Boosting levels of dopamine and norepinephrine can help balance out hyperactivity. And help calm and focus your mind. But often simply boosting or balancing these neurotransmitters is not enough.
Recent studies show that serotonin and dopamine interaction also play a role in ADHD.[ix] Serotonin is involved in the uptake, synthesis and breakdown of dopamine in your brain. Problems with serotonin seem to contribute to behavior and impulse control.
Much more research needs to be done in this area of ADHD. But we can help control and balance serotonin with nootropics.
- 5-HTP – This amino acid is synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan. And 5-HTP is the immediate precursor to serotonin in your brain.
5-HTP can help relieve anxiety and depression, fibromyalgia, insomnia, migraines and likely the hyperactivity, depression and anxiety associated with ADHD. Suggested dosage of 5-HTP is 50 mg up to 3-times per day. Please see our dosage notes and warnings however on supplementing with 5-HTP.
- Ginseng – Ginseng helps calm anxiety, and boost attention, concentration and memory. Ginseng provides neuro-protective effects on the dopaminergic-pathway which can help with ADHD. And ginseng is a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI).
Suggested dosage of Ginseng is 100 – 400 mg per day.
- L-Theanine – L-Theanine commonly found in green tea helps boost alpha and theta brain waves, is anti-anxiety, boosts cognition and memory and reduces insomnia.
L-Theanine also helps boost GABA, serotonin and dopamine levels in your brain. Suggested dosage of L-Theanine is 250 – 500 mg per day.
- Rhodiola Rosea – Rhodiola Rosea helps improve alertness, energy, memory and mood, is anti-anxiety and antidepressant, reduces fatigue and boosts memory and concentration.
Rhodiola influences serotonin and norepinephrine levels in your brain. Suggested dosage of Rhodiola Rosea extract is 150 – 200 mg per day.
- SAM-e – SAM-e helps in the process of cell division and repair. And the generation of dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin.
Suggested dosage of SAM-e is 300 mg per day.
- Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) – Vitamin B6 helps your brain make serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin. Suggested dosage of B6 is up to 100 mg per day.
- Vitamin B8 (Inositol) – Inositol as a nootropic can boost serotonin levels which results in feelings of calm, heightened mental energy, and easy thought flow.
Suggested dosage of Inositol is from 500 – 3,000 mg per day.
- Vitamin B9 (Folate) – Folate (NOT folic acid) as a nootropic helps your brain make dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine and serotonin. Suggested dosage of Folate is 400 mcg per day.
B-Vitamins are Critical in Controlling ADHD
Take note that several of the B-Vitamin group are involved in the production of the neurotransmitters involved in ADHD. I recommend adding a good B-Vitamin Complex well above the usual RDA levels that include folate (not folic acid) and methylcobalamin (not cobalamin) to your stack. Both in a pure nootropic stack as well as when stacking with any of the ADHD prescription stimulants.
But it’s not only the B-Vitamins that are required for a healthy, fully functioning brain. We also need each of the 13 vitamins and 13 minerals needed for everything from blood flow, neurotransmitter synthesis and release, brain signaling, and neuroprotection.
I’ve found the easiest way to make sure my ADD brain gets all the vitamins and minerals it needs every day is to also use a multivitamin/mineral supplement.
The best I’ve found so far is a new multivitamin called Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi. It’s better than the “raw-food” multi I’ve been using for years. And makes a difference I can actually feel.
But please note that this multi is in addition to a B-Vitamin Complex because the ADHD brain needs more of these critical nutrients than what is normally in any good multivitamin.
The Role of Acetylcholine in ADHD
Researchers at Vanderbilt University Medical Center discovered that there are three types of ADHD.
We’ve already covered the “inattentive” type that is related to issues with the norepinephrine transporter gene. And the link to the dopamine transporter gene in the “hyperactive and impulsive” type.
But the research team now report that a variation in the choline transporter gene is associated with a “combined” type of ADHD. Symptoms include both inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity.
Choline is required to synthesize acetylcholine (ACh) which is needed for memory, motor-control, focus, learning, concentration, and cognition.
If you have the “combined” type of ADHD it’s likely due to a mutation in this choline transporter gene variation.
Nootropics to boost acetylcholine include:
- ALCAR (Acetyl-L-Carnitine) – ALCAR donates a methyl group in the presence of Coenzyme-A for the synthesis of acetylcholine. And it’s also a shuttle transport for fatty acids through brain cell membranes. It shuttles fatty acids into mitochondria for ATP synthesis, and shuttles toxic byproducts out.
Research from the Linus Pauling Institute shows ALCAR will restore mitochondrial function, replenish age-related changes to mitochondrial structure, and replenishes acetylcholine levels to your brain and body.
And other studies show that ALCAR stimulates nerve growth factor. Helping support survival and growth of neurons. Which is particularly important for the ADHD brain and especially when using prescription stimulants that may be tough on neurons.
- Alpha Lipoic Acid (R-LA) – Alpha Lipoic Acid increases acetylcholine production by activation of choline acetyltransferase and increases glucose uptake. This process supplies more Acetyl-CoA for the production of acetylcholine.
Alpha Lipoic Acid enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and metabolism for better brain cell performance. And R-Lipoic Acid provides strong antioxidant support because it helps regenerate and recycle existing antioxidants in your brain including Vitamins C & E, glutathione, and CoQ10.
I’ve since switched the ALCAR supplement in my ADD stack to Performance Lab® Energy because this pre-formulated energy stack contains my preferred dose of ALCAR. But note that I also take another 750 mg of ALCAR with my NALT dose late afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash.
Performance Lab® Energy also contains Alpha Lipoic Acid which helps my ADD brain produce acetylcholine. And has helped reverse the ‘insulin resistance’ my doctor diagnosed me with a year ago.
- CDP-Choline (Citicoline) – Citicoline helps synthesize phosphatidylcholine (PC), a major phospholipid found in brain cell membranes. And provides choline for the synthesis of acetylcholine while providing antioxidant activity.
The CDP-Choline (Citicoline) in my ADD stack is supplied by Mind Lab Pro® which is the base of my nootropic stack.
But a suitable alternative to MLP is the new Performance Lab® Mind which contains the branded form of citicoline called Cognizin®.
Performance Lab® Mind and Mind Lab Pro® also contain L-Tyrosine, Phosphatidylserine (PS), and Maritime Pine Bark extract.
Repairing Neuroreceptors Needed to Control ADHD
One of the issues with neurotransmitters and ADHD are damaged or non-existent receptors. Dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin have less receptors to bind to for cognition and mood control.
Once again, nootropics come to the rescue in helping control ADHD. You can add one of these nootropics to your stack to help boost receptor health.
- Ashwagandha – This adaptogen, Ashwagandha helps reduce anxiety and depression. And helps reconstruct axons, dendrites and synapses involved in neurotransmitter signaling in your brain.
Suggested dosage of Ashwagandha extract is 250 – 500 mg per day.
- Bacopa Monnieri – Bacopa helps boost memory and cognition, improves mood, and reduces stress. This adaptogen affects brain levels of acetylcholine needed to help neurotransmitter signaling.
And the two active components of Bacopa Monnieri called bacosides A and B not only improves signaling of electrical impulses between neurons in your brain. Bacosides also help rebuild damaged neurons. Suggested dosage of Bacopa is up to 450 mg per day.
- Lion’s Mane – Lion’s Mane Mushroom is known for stimulating Nerve Growth Factor, improving cognition and memory, and relieving depression.
Lion’s Mane stimulates the repair and creation of neurons in your brain. Neurons needed for dopamine and norepinephrine to control ADHD. Suggested dosage of Lion’s Mane Mushroom starts at 500 mg per day. Note: that there’s an effective 500 mg dose of Lion’s Mane full-spectrum fruiting body in each dose of Mind Lab Pro®
- Noopept – Noopept helps boost cognition, memory, learning, perception, logical thinking and mood. Noopept increases Nerve Growth Factor, and Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) critical for neuroplasticity and Long-Term Potentiation critical for long-term memory.
Noopept also prevents the release of excess glutamate in your brain. Providing potent neuroprotection for neurons and reducing damage. Suggested dosage of Noopept is 10 – 30 mg per day.
Please note that I haven’t linked through to supporting clinical studies for each of the nootropics I listed above. But you can click through to my full review of each nootropic for extensive research supporting each supplement.
Nootropics for Kids
ADHD and ADD is most often diagnosed in children. The latest statistics (2011) from the CDC in the USA shows about 11% of children 4 – 17 years of age (6.4 million) have been diagnosed ADHD.[x] And that’s just for the USA.
Although ADHD is usually first diagnosed in children, it often lasts into adulthood. I sometime wonder how my life would have been different if I had been declared ADD when I was a kid.
But it wasn’t until the late 1960’s that the American Psychiatric Association formally recognized ADHD as a mental disorder. I wasn’t declared Adult ADD until much later.
The thing is many parents are wary about putting their children on powerful, prescription ADHD meds. Kids’ brains continue to develop until your early 20’s. So is it a problem messing with brain chemistry at such a young age? Only time will tell and if the benefits outweigh any potential costs.
Hence the reason why parents are looking for ‘natural’ alternatives like nootropics to treat ADHD in children. But are nootropic supplements any safer than prescription stimulants?
Common sense tells me that using NALT could be safer than Ritalin for boosting dopamine. And Rhodiola Rosea could be safer than stimulants or antidepressants for taming hyperactivity.
But many children with ADHD, natural supplements may not be enough. I’m not a doctor, and don’t even play one on TV. I’m an ordinary biohacker who has learned as much as I can to help myself. And fix my own cognitive issues. Including Adult ADD.
So I highly recommend you find and work with an open-minded psychiatrist with your child. You may be pleasantly surprised to find you may be able to reduce or eliminate prescription ADHD meds altogether. And maybe not. But the long-term health of your child could be worth the time investment to find out.
In Summary
I’ve been wanting to write this post since I started Nootropics Expert®. If you are ADHD or ADD, I hope you found this useful. And I’d appreciate your feedback, and share your experience with treating ADHD with nootropics in the comments section of this post below.
Please share this post with anyone you think would benefit. Including discussions about nootropics for ADHD on reddit or Longecity.
One final note. Neurotransmitter balance is key to taming ADHD. I strongly caution you to take it slow if you’re just starting out with nootropics. Carefully read each of the extended articles in the List of Nootropics you are considering trying.
You need to be careful about side effects, prescription drug interactions, dosages and how your body reacts to each supplement.
But I’m confident that with careful planning and a long-term commitment, you can be as successful as I have been in living and thriving with ADHD or ADD.
[i] Arnsten A.F., Li B.M. “Neurobiology of executive functions: catecholamine influences on prefrontal cortical functions.” Biological Psychiatry. 2005 Jun 1;57(11):1377-84. (source)
[ii] Pliszka S.R., McCracken J.T., Maas J.W. “Catecholamines in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: current perspectives.” Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 1996 Mar;35(3):264-72. (source)
[iii] Aston-Jones G., Rajkowski J., Cohen J. “Role of locus coeruleus in attention and behavioral flexibility.” Biological Psychiatry. 1999 Nov 1;46(9):1309-20. (source)
[iv] Berridge C.W., Waterhouse B.D., “The locus coeruleus–noradrenergic system: modulation of behavioral state and state-dependent cognitive processes” Brain Research Reviews Volume 42, Issue 1, April 2003, Pages 33–84 (source)
[v] Franowicz J.S., Kessler L.E., Borja C.M., Kobilka B.K., Limbird L.E., Arnsten A.F. “Mutation of the alpha2A-adrenoceptor impairs working memory performance and annuls cognitive enhancement by guanfacine.” Journal of Neuroscience. 2002 Oct 1;22(19):8771-7. (source)
[vi] Zametkin A.J., Karoum F., Linnoila M., Rapoport J.L., Brown G.L., Chuang L.W., Wyatt R.J. “Stimulants, urinary catecholamines, and indoleamines in hyperactivity. A comparison of methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine.” Archives of General Psychiatry. 1985 Mar;42(3):251-5. (source)
[vii] Oades R.D. “Role of the serotonin system in ADHD: treatment implications.” Expert Review of Neurotherapeutics. 2007 Oct;7(10):1357-74. (source)
[viii] Wilens T.E. “Effects of methylphenidate on the catecholaminergic system in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.” Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. 2008 Jun;28(3 Suppl 2):S46-53 (source)
[ix] Oades R.D. “Dopamine-serotonin interactions in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).” Progress in Brain Research. 2008;172:543-65 (source)
[x] “Key Findings: Trends in the Parent-Report of Health Care Provider-Diagnosis and Medication Treatment for ADHD: United States, 2003—2011” Centers for Disease and Prevention cdc.gov (source)
Hi! Great article!
I have ADD (not ADHD) myself and use Medikinet (Methylphenidath) daily. On top, I consume ALCAR+NALT (1-2 x 500mg each), Ginko, vitamine B complex + occasionally Omega 3 / vitamine D.
You recommend using Ginseng, but in the article linked you mention possible side effects when consumed in combination with Ritalin.
So, what’s your take on that? Any recommendations how to improve my stack?
Sven, Ginseng acts like an SNRI so it ‘may’ be contraindicated with methylphenidate. Because it may potentiate the effects of methylphenidate which could cause problems.
But this doesn’t happen for everyone. Only some will have a bad reaction combining the two. But you don’t really need it anyway.
If you only do one dose per day of methylphenidate then using this stack morning and noon should work for you. But if you feel yourself crashing around 4 PM then try using the stack again.
The very basics of my ADD stack are: 500 mg NALT twice per day, 500 mg ALCAR twice per day, 300 mg Alpha GPC twice per day, B-Complex daily, Omega-3 (DHA 1,000 mg) daily, and Vitamin D3 4,000 IU daily.
Don’t forget that Ginkgo acts as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) so will increase dopamine levels in your brain. It will affect methylphenidate and NALT. Which may or may not work for you. But it also boosts cerebral circulation which is a great thing for the ADD brain.
Hi David, i am currently studying at a university in Holland. My finals are about to come up and I feel overwhelmed with anxiety. Part of that anxiety is due to my ritalin usage for my ADHD. I suffer from Social anxiety disorder and goes hand in hand with the ADHD..both make it each other worse. I already take some vitamins and minerals for my general health like: Vitamin D, Vitamin B complex, fish oil, l-tyrosine, magnesium, Vitamin K and Vitamin C.
Do you have any tips on what to take with the ritalin so I don’t get so anxious?
Kevin, first your dosage for you are using needs to be correct. That includes at least 500 mg L-Tyrosine morning, noon and 4 PM. The last dose if to prevent a stimulant crash.
Replace your “fish oil” with a DHA supplement. Get one that contains 1,000 mg DHA in one or two gelcaps with half as much EPA. Or get the Performance Lab Omega-3 (https://bit.ly/3q98chL) and use 3 gelcaps per day. Which is what I use now.
I’ve personally had a lot of success with Aniracetam + Sulbutiamine for anxiety and depression. Get combo I’ve found for me. Not sure if it will help you however.
Get yourself a high quality Multi to replace/restore all the critical vitamins and minerals you’re deficient in. I use this one and feel better using it: https://bit.ly/347dm5M
And do something to increase acetylcholine as well. Alpha GPC + ALCAR will work. Once you get those two neurotransmitters working optimally and bring everything else into balance I think you’ll start feeling less overwhelmed.
Hi David, thanks so much for this great article, amazing info.
I am a 43 year old male and have been trialling ADHD meds for the last couple of months, starting with Ritalin (horrible), Vyvanse (ok, by very ‘slow/floaty’) and now Dexamphetamine, which is what we have in Australia in place of Adderall.
What I have found is that I had to very quickly increase the dose of Dex to get the same effect. The first time I had it I tried 1/4 of a 5mg tablet and it worked great. For the last 5 days I have been on a more standard dose of 10mg 3 times a day. I am finding each time reduced effect, the first morning dose works ok, second hardly and the 3rd almost not at all when I actually get sleepy and feel heavy. I’ve also experienced depression on most evenings, some nights it was really bad, complete despondent hopelessness. Some anxiety too. Depression and anxiety have been a constant companion to my ADHD in my life, especially anxiety. These nightly depressive episodes have been worse than anything in many years.
In the afternoon after the 3rd dose I start to get sleepy. Initially I’d then also get hit with the above mentioned withdrawal with depression. I stopped taking 5htp 2 nights ago and have not drank coffee for the last 2 days (usually 4 standard shots of coffee daily) – these last 2 days seem much better, although still some sleepiness and increased tolerance, but the depressive symptoms are easing. However at night I still can’t sleep and end up taking clonidine (prescribed by the same psych that gave me the Dex), as well as Belsomra. I still barely sleep. That was the case before the stimulant meds and its predictably worse with them.
Reading your site and others one issue I think I am highly impacted by is dopamine depletion. I have been taking 5-htp for the last 1.5 years, every time before bed to help with sleep – 300mg. I also take melatonin (3mg) and magnesium at that time. I tend to also have 2-3 drinks of alcohol in the evening.
For most of that time I have take tyrosine (500mg) and theanine also. However for the last 2-3 months it has only been the 5htp, no tyrosine. So very likely I am very dopamine depleted, would you say that’s correct?
I have just bought tyrosine, to take with each dose of Dex, as well as ALCAR. Alpha GPC is on order. I have not been taking vitamins recently, but was until 3 months ago when I had to start saving money so stopped buying most of my supplements. Have now started these again after reading the above – B vitamin complex, as well as D, zinc, CoQ10 and fish oil.
My question is how best to restore my dopamine depletion after the 5htp so the meds start work well again? Is what I am doing now, as listed above, enough or is there more I can do?
How would the caffeine contributed and do you think it is ok to keep drinking it? And what about the impact of alcohol?
Apologies for all that detail I’ve thrown in, wanted to be thorough. I am determined to get through the current tough period and get the best out of the meds with help from whatever supplements I’d need. Your help is greatly appreciated!
thank you
Boris, I’m sure it’s a lack of dopamine that is causing these symptoms. The amphetamine needs more dopamine to work properly especially in older people (i.e. 40+).
I suggest trying 1,000 mg L-Tyrosine in the morning, 500 mg at noon and another 500 mg around 4 PM. But you need at least 3 of the B-Vitamins for this to work. So best to get a high quality Multivitamin like the Performance Lab NutriGenesis Multi (https://bit.ly/347dm5M).
ALCAR, and Alpha GPC helps increase acetylcholine which is always a problem in the ADHD brain. And ALCAR with CoQ10 help mitochondria produce ATP to you fight fatigue.
Please do NOT use “fish oil”. Your brain required 1,000 mg DHA per day taken in the morning. You cannot get that from fish oil. Get a high quality DHA supplement that provides 1,000 mg DHA in one or two gelcaps along with half as much EPA.
Hi David, I’m 60 years old male. Got diagnosed with ADHD recently and put on 2x10mg Adderall IR daily. The first week it worked wonders for my ADHD symptoms, from attention to anxiety issues. But then now it made me very sleepy about one hour after taking it. I changed the dosage and timing around, but the problem still persists. I did a little research and apparently there are about 6% of ADHD people having this side effect when they take stimulants. Adderall really helps me with so much with emotional/social issues that I want to continue with it. I don’t understand why Adderall makes so many ADHD people stay alert and focused but in my case, it makes me so relaxed, calm, and very sleepy.
Is there any supplement that can help with this sleepiness side effect while on Adderall?
Lee, you are experiencing this problem because the 60 yr. old brain does not have enough dopamine for Adderall to do its job effectively.
If you want Adderall to work and to avoid a crash late afternoon I suggest you scroll up to the top of this page. And start using the stack I’ve suggested in the yellow box. And I mean every supplement in that stack with the possible exception of Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine. And you can replace Vinpocetine (if you find it difficult to get) with Pine Bark Extract.
Start using this stack as described and Adderall will start working again. And continue to work for as long as you want to use it.
– Thank you for your quick reply. I’m trying out your stack slowly. For the past 4 days I stopped Adderall and started taking ALCAR, PS, NALT, RALA, CDP Choline along with the current supplements like NAC, Rhodiola, Ashwagandha, Vit-D, Fish Oil, L-Theanine. I’m taking up to 3g of ALCAR per day, and I can feel it makes the biggest help with my ADHD symptoms. My brain fog is almost gone, my mood is greatly improving, my focus on task is steady.
– The reason I’m taking a large dose of ALCAR because I think I’m most like ADHD-combined type. And that means my acetylcholine level is suboptimal low or not stable enough to maintain my attention. I’m used to be a heavy smoker, so that may explain my “acetylcholine” theory.
– I’m also studying up on iodine deficiency, thanks to your youtube video. I think I may have both ADHD and iodine deficiency. I will soon supplement with Iodoral to see if it will improve my other problem like fatigue, hair loss, dry skin.
– I’m thinking to add Huperizion A into my stack above. I watched your youtube video and think it may help me more with my ADHD issues. Please advise.
Lee, if you decide to start using Iodine please follow the dosage recommendations closely. That includes stacking it with Selenium, Vitamin C and magnesium. And don’t forget that Iodine is fat-soluble. So must be taken with a meal containing healthy fats. Or a tablespoon of unrefined coconut oil or MCT Oil. Iodoral is a good choice because it’s a combination of Iodine/Potassium Iodide. But make sure you start with the smallest dose and see how you react.
Be careful with Huperzine-A because it has a 24 hr. half-life. Which means you can only use it every 2nd or 3rd day. It is a powerful way to raise acetylcholine levels in your brain. And can be very effective. But must be respected.
Hi David! Amazing post and information, thank you so much! In the comments you tell people to add Alpha GPC, but in your “ADD/ADHD stack” at the top of the page you don’t include it. Any reason why? Thanks!
Eric, I forgot to include it when updating this article. Thanks for pointing it out. It will be corrected. Much appreciated.
Hey there! Your page is phenomenal!! I was wondering if I should start this whole stack right away? I’ve been taking 40 mg Adderall instant release a day, (20 in the am then ten mg in the afternoon and evening) for a few months and right now I’m pretty inconsistent but I take magnesium, fish oil and L-Lysine daily. Should I jump right into the full stack?
Adele, I do not normally recommend the someone “jump right into the full stack”. Because if one supplement in that stack backfires on you, you’ll not know which one caused the problem. So please keep that in mind.
The basics of this stack are 500 mg L-Tyrosine, 300 mg Alpha GPC, and 500 mg ALCAR each time you use Adderall.
You also need 1,000 mg DHA (NOT fish oil) in the morning along with Mind Lab Pro.
And 400 mg magnesium before bed.
Thank you!!! I’ve pretty much been studying your information and each nootropic since the message, what are your thoughts on Tryptophan?
Adele, everything I know about Tryptophan is here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/tryptophan/. It’s the best and safest way to boost serotonin that we have. And is particularly important if you’re boosting dopamine. Because those two must be in balance.
I just got my order from Nootropic Depot, but I bought L-Tyrosine and not NALT. I do have Mind Lab Pro on the way, I think you said it is in that as well? I’m confused about the DHA recommendation. You said not fish oil, but most DHA I can find has EPA in it and is labelled fish oil. I recently was talking to someone and she said she takes Sea Buckthorn, which has all the fatty acids in it. Have you come across any research about that? It seems research is very limited, but what are your thoughts on all the fatty acids together? I am so excited to start this, I took my dose of Adderall and with it I took the Tyrosine and ALCAR, tomorrow morning i will take the Alpha GPC with it as well as my normal doses of magnesium, vitamin D, glucosamine chondroitin, fish oil (it’s labeled fish oil but has 1000 mg EPA/DHA), Turmeric (I am going to get the kind you mentioned that is curcumin with the added ingredient to help bioavailability), L-Lysine ( I take it for my skin but are there any other benefits of taking it?) and a vitamin B combo. Any thoughts on those in combination with AGPC, tyrosine and ALCAR with mind pro?
Adele, I’ve had good success using L-Tyrosine with Mind Lab Pro.
And no confusion about DHA. Your brain is made up of about 60% fat. And most of the fat is DHA. DHA comes from Algae. That’s where fish get it from. Better to use a supplement with 1,000 mg DHA and less EPA. My favorite now is the Performance Lab Omega-3 which provides 900 mg DHA in 3 gelcaps (https://bit.ly/3kgtQ12).
And sorry but have not done the research on L-Lysine.
David, how do you deal with taking all these supplements every day? I find with my adhd it feels like a process to take them all.
Adele, my attitude is I’m willing to do whatever it takes for me to feel good and perform at a level that makes me happy. So I don’t give it much thought.
I know what I need to take in the morning, at noon, later in the afternoon, and before bed to keep up this level of performance. And feel good. It’s a habit now and I think a “happy habit”. 🙂
Oh, and I meant to ask what do you think about racetams while being on adhd medication?
Adele, I think racetams are a valuable tool that’s available to us if we need them. I personally have found Aniracetam combined with Sulbutiamine to be the best antidepressant I’ve ever used.
I’ve tried other racetams and none of them work as well for me as Aniracetam. And it does not conflict with nor is contraindicated with the Ritalin I use every day.
Hi again!!! I never mentioned that i have diagnosed depression as well, and I do not want to take antidepressants any longer, and have been completely off them for a while now. However, my depression obviously hasn’t gone away. While taking a stimulant for my adhd has helped a little, I do still suffer from the depression. I’m looking into subutimate (I don’t remember the name of it lol) and aniracetam, but with the adhd stack and a stimulant medication, how would you alter the stack for depression?
Adele, I use 750 mg Aniracetam + 200 mg Sulbutiamine in the morning and again at noon. And this combo is the best antidepressant I’ve ever used. Not sure it will work for you but it’s worth trying.
Hey again! So I added Mind Lab Pro to my stack and it increased my anxiety tremendously. I’m wondering if the NALT in combination with the 500 mg of Tyrosine is too much? I’m going to order the multi that you suggest but I’m a little concerned about anxiety levels. Any ideas?
Adele, if Mind Lab Pro causes anxiety in you then you shouldn’t be using it. Unless you were using it with 500 mg L-Tyrosine. If so I suggest trying Mind Lab Pro without extra L-Tyrosine. If Mind Lab Pro works but doesn’t cause anxiety on its own then you know it was excess dopamine or norepinephrine.
Hi hi hi. I’m desperately trying to see if I accidentally created a perfect storm for an absolutely terrifying serotonin hollowing-out. I’ve been following your page for a while and would massively appreciate any thoughts you might have.
I was diagnosed with severe combination ADHD 3 months ago. I started on Vyvanse 20mg 4 weeks ago. I was supporting it with NALT, between 700mg-2100mg a day & L-Theanine (800mg a day). + Citicholine, Curcuramin, Methylfolate (as Quatrefolic), Methyl B12, Vit D, Niacin, DHA, EPA, Magnesium Acetyltaurinate & Zinc Picolinate.
I had previously tried Concerta and hated it, felt like I was going to explode, I already have severe ADHD, and it felt like I somehow even MORE severe ADHD (!). Vyvanse was much better. Couldn’t task switch easily still but could work (hyperfocus – I draw) more readily and the constant spinning thoughts and looping fixations were much quieter. The only bad thing was that… i felt like… how you’d feel on a tough job, like, i had a bit of constant background feeling of “Holding my nerve” like “I will need a big holiday at the end of this” kind of feeling. Ok, so not perfect (I want to task switch and it’s quieter but not gone etc etc) but not a bad start to titration. Importantly, I was quite calm.
I have a menstrual cycle. Suddenly in the week before my period, everything collapsed. I do certainly have bad PMS but this was the mother of all PMSs. I became very suddenly completely suicidal, I was screaming constantly, crying like a fountain, yelling over the phone to my best friend who was very patient. Very suicidal. It was depressed, but a focussed energetic, resolved depression, furious, and also absolutely terrifying. Like I had no choice but to kill myself. This…. this is not…. a normal PMS. (!!!!)
This is my theory. The serotonin collapsed. I live alone. Lockdown etc means no one had come to visit. No hugs. No pets. I worked all month on the Vyvanse. Slept soundly, but didn’t sleep much. Hardly ever tasked switch so no walks, no exercise. Locked down at home. Same sights, same walls. Appetite down, ate a lot less. Allll the regular serotonin-helping activities were out. I had been supporting dopamine with the Vyvanse AND with the daily NALT and even the Cucuramin too which overtips the balance? And so maybe the straw that broke the camel’s back was that naturally hormonally serotonin buckles anyway in the late stage of the menstrual cycle.
Last 2 days I don’t know how but I’ve gotten a hold of myself, put a hypothesis together that the serotonin just collapsed. Am still taking the Vyvanse but I stopped the NALT, took L-Theanine, 5HTP & St John’s Wort for the first time ever & inositol. The suicidal/fury stuff has completely stopped. Also the worst of the natural cyclical hormonal serotonin drop should be over now anyway as I approach Day 1 of my new cycle (today or tomorrow). I do have a headache and I felt a bit nauseous yesterday (both unusual) but I feel I’m back to “normal”.
1) sorry this is so long 2) sorry to be so open with the exact days of my menstrual cycle!! 3) i see so SO little info out there about balancing ADHD with the natural neurotransmitter changes of the menstrual cycle – (which is particularly frustrating because there seems to be a big overlap with bad PMS/PMDD sufferers & ADHD diagnosis) so I’m really desperate to find out anything I can so this doesn’t happen again next cycle.
Do you have any thoughts on whether my hypothesis of the serotonin depletion might have been correct, or do you suspect something else might have happened? Any ideas on how to avoid this crash next cycle – it was…. absolutely terrifying for me and my family/friends – or any resources would be so massively massively appreciated.
Thanks so much
Ryker
Ryker, dopamine and serotonin MUST be in balance. If you increase dopamine too much it will depress serotonin. And vice versa.
You were taking much too high a dose of NALT and L-Theanine. And you’re likely correct that you suppressed serotonin far too much. And likely too much Citicoline as well although that’s not clear in your note.
If you want to try this again I suggest 300 mg NALT in the morning and at noon. An optional dose at 4 PM to prevent the stimulant crash. Don’t increase NALT any higher than 500 mg per dose although I don’t think you need that much. Because 100 mg L-Theanine is also increasing dopamine.
And you need 500 mg ALCAR each time you use Citicoline too because L-Carnitine is cofactor in acetylcholine synthesis. As is Thiamine. It would be better if you dropped the individual vitamins (with the exception of Vitamin D) and used a high quality multivitamin instead.
And 500 mg L-Tryptophan before bed to raise your serotonin levels.
Hello Mr Tomen,
congratulations for your great work.I take 18 mg Concerta daily (methylphenidate extended release) ,along with NAC andL-Tyrosine.I would like a bit more of a boost.Should I got to 36mg daily or add selegiline 5mg which provides neuroprotective benefits also?
Selegiline is an monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) inhibitor. You could try that. Or go the natural route and use something like Oat Straw extract (https://nootropicsexpert.com/oat-straw/) which is also an MAOI-B. There are others that act on both A and B as well. Search this site using the search function above the top menu. And search for (MAOI).
David, thank you so much for your work here! There is no telling how many people’s lives you have improved. I am 26 years old, and I have made leaps and bounds in tackling my chronic ADHD the past couple months. I had a question for you regarding my stack. Here it is:
Taken with empty stomach/Coconut Oil (like you):
* Citicoline: 250mg
* Phosphatylserine: 100mg
* Tyrosine: 500mg (3 times per day)
* Theanine: 150mg
* DHA: 1g
* B-Complex
* Bacopa: 320mg
* Alpha GPC: 300mg
* Lithium Orotate: 5mg
* Rhodiola Rosea: 250mg
* Pine Bark Extract: 150mg
* ALCAR: 500mg
* Vinpocetine (cerebral blood flow): 10mg, twice per day
* Lion’s Mane: 500mg, twice per day
* PQQ: 20mg
* COQ10: 100mg
* Alpha Lipoic Acid: 150mg
* NAC: 500mg
* Sulbutiamine, 200mg
* Adderall, IR 5mg
* Aniracetam, 750mg, twice per day
* Carnosine, 500mg, twice per day
First, do you think this stack is safe and not overdoing it? My second question is related to the low dose of Adderall. I have read that low doses of amphetamines can have negative receptor desensitization effects (https://www.reddit.com/r/adderall/comments/8fhbdd/can_someone_explain_microdosing/). Do you think 5mg of Adderall could be a problem. I am sensitive to amphetamines and for health reasons want the dosage to be as low as possible.
Luke, I don’t think you are “overdoing it”. Everything that you are using is benefiting your brain. And certainly supporting the tiny amount of Adderall you are using.
I just don’t see any benefit to microdosing amphetamines. If you are clinically ADHD and would do better using regular doses of Adderall that would make more sense.
BUT, I have tested this stack for a year while taking a stimulant holiday and it worked very well. It should work even better for you since you’re younger than I. Have you tried this stack while not using Adderall?
Dear David
Below my Stack for super noortropic I’m i missing any thing or Am’I included too many things, pls suggest;
1 CDP Choline (Citicoline) 150 mg
2 Alpha GPC:(m+) 600mg
3 Phosphatidylserine (PS), 100mg
4 Omega-3/DHA (m+) 1000mg
5 N-Acetyl-L-Tyrosine (NALT) * 175mg
6 L-Theanine 100 mg
7 Caffeine (m+) 100 mg
8 Lion’s Mane 500mg
9 Bacopa 200mg
10 Rhodiola Rosea 50mg
11 Maritime Pine Bark Extract 75 mg
12 Vinpocetine 5mg
13 B-Vitamin Complex
14 Ginkgo Biloba 100mg
15 Huperine A 250mcg
Should I add Uridine??
Regards
PKN, good stack but you should only use Huperzine-A every 2nd or 3rd day because it has a 24 hr. half life.
No need to ad Uridine.
And do you realize that you can get most of those ingredients at the dosage you are using in Mind Lab Pro? (https://bit.ly/3lh3w8a)
Hello, I really appreciate your effort to help people with ADHD like me.
Right now, I am taking Concerta (45mg), Indenol (reduce heart beat and anxiety 10mg) , and anti depressant (5mg) .
Will it be ok for me to take Mind lab pro , Uridine Monophosphate, Alpha-GPC, OMEGA – 3 , Sulbutiamin, Aniracetam , and multivitamins (SuperImmune) together?? Is there any pills that I should eliminate?
Danny, there is nothing in Mind Lab Pro that is reported to be contraindicated with the meds you are using. But that does not mean they are safe.
Here’s a suggestion. Use your meds like you normally take them. Then try each nootropic you mentioned one at a time. The only exception is Aniracetam which needs to be taken with Alpha GPC. And see how you feel. If you get a bad reaction then you’ll know which one shouldn’t be used.
You are entering into unexplored territory here so to be safe, when you do test each supplement, make sure you use the lowest dose to start.
Wow that is a really good way to do the experiment. Thank you very much !!
Hello David. I have tried out a couple of nootropics before coming across your articles, and this in combination with ADHD medication.
But I must say I’m deeply troubled over whatever is going on.
I had only taken a few slurps of water mixed with one (4-500 mg) dose of N-acetyl L-tyrosine, more than an hour of after taking my medication, but without any wild exagerations I get jumpy, shaky, anxious and inactive like.
This makes me baffled at the notion “You can safely use up to 2,000 mg per day when stacking with ADHD meds”, and wonder how this can be easy for others taking these supplements.
I have a history of inconsistent effects from my medication. When it works, it’s wonderful and just what I need to proceed with all the mess in my life. But it changes how.
Some others have pointed out that IgG (food intolerances) and poor gut health are also major causes of treatment failure. As well as some insights about acidic meals interacting with the medication (citric acid, grapefruit). This also makes the whole ordeal an insane puzzle to deal with, with no clue on what buttons to turn up or down.
But how can so little amounts of NALT feel so horrid? This makes no sense.
After feeling deeply uncomfortable and nervous, I was thinking this must be an unbalanced high degree of thyroid/dopaminergic end of the scale – end then I took some L-Tryptophan mixed with water, also only a few slurps of one dose. First moment I felt a little better, but then I felt nervous and shaky AGAIN.
Can these bad effects come from not waiting enough before/after eating when taking L-tyrosine / L-tryptophan? Or from taking it too close to the medication?
I just don’t know what to do.
Thomas, it sounds like you are one of the few unfortunate ones who are extremely sensitive to supplements. You can try 250 mg NALT and see how you feel. But if you end up with the same type of reaction it’s time to find out what is causing this.
I can understand why you are “deeply troubled”. That should be motivation enough to get to the bottom of this and fix it.
If it is a leaky gut, you can use this article I wrote about fixing a leaky brain which amounts to the same thing: https://nootropicsexpert.com/how-to-heal-a-leaky-blood-brain-barrier/.
I suggest trying that first and see if it helps. It’ll take awhile to produce results. But you’ve been dealing with this for decades. I think 2 or 3 months is worth the effort in comparison.
If that doesn’t work then report back and we’ll try something else.
Hey David and thanks for the great response.
Well if I’m sensitive to neuro-supplements I should probably also be sensitive to medication? Which I definitely believe and would say I am. First time I got on dextroamphetamine I had tremendous experiences from just 5mg – and most attempts to adjust the dose up often had me experiencing bad side effects, even though I sometimes didn’t get the effect from the previous dose.
I did try something akin to 200 og maybe 100 mg of the water mixed with NAL-tyrosine, but if being sensitive to medication and also being on 40mg Elvanse (Vyvanse in DK), maybe that’s what did the tripping and made me so deeply uncomfortable.
Could it also be that it overloads like that and cause paranoia/anxiety/brain-‘crash’ by taking the NALT-water TOO SOON after the medicine?
Believe me, that motivation is there and has already been there for about 1½ year. I’ve been digging and researching for much more than 2-3 months trying to find the culprit(s) for my various reactions in terms of foods, hydration, chemical combinations, nootropics, pH, etc. and it’s been insane and gone in circles despite following same procedures, a.o.
An IgG lab test (‘ImuPro’) turned up this summer though, claiming I apparently have 71 food intolerances and I think leaky gut was indicated. So there’s that.
Still going about my kitchen emptying the last foods that contain any of the many ingredients/items as we speak, as there’s so many – but I’m checking out the article on the double and will try that out. Thanks so far.
Thomas, I wish you the best in getting to the bottom of this. And then getting it fixed. I’m convinced it’s possible. But it may take awhile and much trial and error on your way there.
David!!! I love this! I, too, have been interested in Nootropics and was a GT ADHD student for years. In my 20’s things were bad, and a dr put me on antidepressants… big mistake… after taking 4 that didn’t help, the one, odd one w norepinephrine helped somewhat. But I couldn’t get off of them!! Finally got off of antidepressants after 20 years and my ADD was off the charts. After a year of supplements, I needed more and went on Adderall. I was finally “normal “; however, I noticed that I need to supplement with 5-HTP and Tryptophan to sleep well at night and for my mood.
PS… Tyrosine didn’t keep me focused. I did feel better with 200mg 5-HTP 2-3x day when I wasn’t taking Adderall or antidepressants. I find the Adderall helps my mood AND brain focus. Also, name brand XR Adderall isn’t good for me only generic XR or immediate release name brand. It’s so interesting our brains and each little receptor and synapse how it/ they react to different compounds. Take care.
Dana, the key to success with nootropics is experimenting because each of us is different in many ways. But please be careful with such a high dose of 5-HTP. Because if you use it regularly and long-term it will stop providing any benefit. I’ve seen this time and time again in user reviews and clinical studies. It likely happens because excess serotonin depresses dopamine.
Hello David;
What type of Ritalin do you use? XR or XL.
have you ever used Adderal with this stack?
I am using the stack of ADHD with modafinil 100mg to 200mg. and added Wel Butrin for few days as the SAD is getting hard here in England.
Benyamin, I use instant release Ritalin. I’ve tried Adderall in the past but it didn’t work for me. But this ADHD stack supports any type of stimulant medication.
Hi David, Question for you my eldest son 23 has not been diagnosed with ADHD directly but has all the traits. Mood Swings, inattentive, impulsive, and very cold. The only problem is he is on immune suppressive tablets for a liver transplant 17 years ago. Could you recommend a stack to help him please.
Elizabeth, the stack I describe in the above post is made for ADHD. The basics of the stack (refer to the list above) include: L-Tyrosine, Alpha GPC, ALCAR, DHA, and a B-Complex. But you’ll need to check with his doctor to verify that each of these supplements are OK with immune suppression drugs.
Hello David.
I want to try Ritalin and Adderal as a trial for the next few months. should I try the slow release or normal release?
Benyamin, I prefer Instant Release because I know exactly how long each dose lasts. And exactly what nootropics I need and how much to support its use.
But you say “Ritalin and Adderall”. I don’t recommend trying both at the same time. I’ve found that Ritalin works better for some brains while Adderall works better for others. The only way to determine that is to try them one at a time. And be prepared to go through withdrawal while switching from one to the other.
Hello David. Thank you very much for this interesting article. My son (17) has ADHD. He tried ritalin a year ago but cannot stand its side effects (loss of appetite, bad mood and difficulty falling asleep). I have two choices:
1) Try again ritalin but I would have to find the best nootropic to eliminate its side effects. An idea?
2) Find an alternative to ritalin but my son refuses to take more than 3-4 capsules per day. Too many useless tests in the past… 🙁 So your stack is impossible for him (too many pills)
Thank you a lot for your help!
Marc
Marc, the stack I describe in the past above is designed to work with or without stimulants. I tried it for a year with not using Ritalin. And it worked.
The basics of this stack for ADHD is Mind Lab Pro, L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, Alpha GPC, DHA and either a high quality B-Complex or a high quality Multi. And the only way it works is if you do it twice a day.
That’s the way it works. If he’s not willing to “take more than 3-4 capsules per day” then he’ll need to continue to live with his ADHD symptoms. There is no “one pill” solution in this world. No matter what anyone says.
I’m not sure why this wasn’t suggested, but you can always buy the supplements in bulk and weigh doses and mix them into a food/drink or a shake rather than taking pills or tablets. It’s also much more cost-effective if you’re willing to invest that time/energy into preparing it.
As for the pills thing specifically, if he has issues redosing medication through the day then there are plenty of options besides Ritalin.
There are other “extended-release” stimulant medications that last between 6-12 hours instead of roughly 4 like Ritalin.
In the phenidate group similar to Ritalin there is Concerta that lasts up to 12 hours or Ritalin LA lasts up to 10 hours.
As for amphetamines similar to Adderall, Vyvanse lasts up to 12 hours.
You will have to decide what the right duration is for them based on when they wake/sleep and the flow of their daily life. You can reference the “Types of Intermediate and Long-Acting Stimulants and Side Effects” of this chart to get an idea of what options are available for what durations
webmd (dot) com ADHD Medication Chart
Keep in mind these are not all going to effect him the same way even in the same group of medications. My experience with Adderall is much less desirable than my experience with Vyvanse for example even though they are very similar.
Hi David.
Again, thanks very much for all the information here in these post. This information is priceless.
Today, I bought the stack exactly the same as the one you describe at the beginning of the post for ADD/ADHD.
My daughter has 6 years old and she is around 22 Kg of weight. She has ADD, and she is not medicated, here were we live, it is not possible to find Ritalin, or something similar.
Anyway, we started slowly with the nootropics, mostly, because is a little bit scary for us to give medicines to our daughter, but, to be honest, we have noticed a little improvement with the nootropics she is taking now.
We are giving her right now, only 1 time in the morning the following:
Bacopa: 60 Mg/day
L Theanine: 60 Mg/day
L Tyrosine: 110 Mg/day
Alpha GPC: 125 Mg/day
Vitamin B9: 450 Mg/day
Folic Acid: 1.2 Mg/Day
Vitamin B12 20 Mcg/day
Omega 3: 1000 Mg (Epa: 300 mg + DHA: 200 Mg)/day
But, the full stack you recommend , should arrive the next week, and for example, the mind lab pro, and the performance lab, are pills for adults, so, I suppose, we need to cut them.
Also, the Mind lab pro, already has NALT, and the performance lab-energy, already has ALCAR.
Do you have any suggestion for the dosage? how to start?.
Thanks so much
Frederic, for her age I suggest only one capsule of Mind Lab Pro and one capsule of PL Energy. And once you start using them eliminate L-Tyrosine and Bacopa.
The B-Vitamins are very important but you should be using the right kind. For example, Vitamin B9 should be “folate” and NOT “folic acid” which is synthetic. And Vitamin B12 needs to be methylcobalamin and NOT cyanocobalamin because the latter provides a little cyanide with each dose. Please see my individual B-Vitamin reviews which includes the correct form of each vitamin.
Final thing you may have success with is a high quality Multi. But again, they’re made for adults. So if you tried the women’s Multi by Performance Lab I’d start with one capsule per day.
Dosages for her age are difficult and I’m not qualified to recommend specific dosages for kid. You may want to find kids vitamins and supplements on a place like Amazon and see what dosages they use.
Final note: this stack works best if used twice per day. Because the half-life on a lot of these ingredients is only 2 – 3 hours. Esp. for vitamins and amino acids.
Thanks very much for your reply.
I also ordered Life Extension, BioActive Complete B-Complex. it has
Thiamine (vitamin B1) (as thiamine HCI) 100 mg
Riboflavin (vitamin B2) (as riboflavin and riboflavin 5′-phosphate) 75 mg
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxine HCI and pyridoxal 5′ phosphate) 100 mg
Folate (as L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate calcium salt) 400 mcg○
Vitamin B12 (as methylcobalamin) 300 mcg
I saw you recommended in one of the comments. I don’t know if the quantities of B vitamin are enough , or again, I need to complement with another source of B Vitamin.
I see that for example, the B6 and B12 are very high compared with what I am giving her now
Also, I don’t see there B9, but I do see Folate. As you mentioned, B9 should be Folate and the B complex has 400 mcgo. According to your review, for adults, should b e 500 mcgo, up to 1000 mcgo
Do you think that it is enough? or should I go with the performance lab women?
Frederic, probably one capsule of Performance Lab NutriGenesis for women would be best. Because that is 1/4 of the adult dose.
You can also use the Life Extension B-Complex but even 1/2 the adult dose of one capsule is a little high for her age. Even though they are food-grade, bioactive vitamins and are not toxic even at higher doses. I’m not sure I’d take the chance with a 6 yr. old.
If you decide to use the Multi for her instead I suggest you use the Life Extension B-Complex. Chances are you need it and it’ll do you good.
Hi David.
I just wanted to give an update about my daughter, I believe, there is few information about the use of nootropics in 6 years old children. Maybe my feedback could help.
Again, thanks very much for all the information provided, it has helped us a lot.
We already got the Mindlab pro and the performance lab energy, and we are waiting for the Performance Lab NutriGenesis for women.
We still has not started with those vitamins because, we wanted to finish this week with the combination we was giving to her and take note of the changes. so, we will start next week with mind lab pro, and performance lab for woman
This week, she is taking
Bacopa: 60 Mg/day
L Theanine: 60 Mg/day
L Tyrosine: 200 Mg/day
Alpha GPC: 125 Mg/day
L-Carnitine 200 Mg/day
1capsule of Life Extension, BioActive Complete B-Complex
Omega 3: 1000 Mg (Epa: 300 mg + DHA: 200 Mg)/day
Coconut oil
This week, for the first time we have seen a mild improvement in her focus and understanding, so, we are very happy. Even the teacher congratulate her for her performance.
Also, everything that I give to her, I test it before in me, so, right now, I am taking all the combination that you suggest in this post, even the Aniracetam, that I got it this week ( I know, that I should not medicate myself, but I test in me anything before give it to my daughter), and for my surprise, my mood has improve a lot, also my memory and retention of information.
I take Sertraline since long time back, for my anxiety disorder, but I feel that the sertraline affect my mood, and also I give me like mental fog, but I don’t know why, since I started to take the full combination mentioned above, this fog is gone, and my mood is excellent.
The next week I will introduce the complete combination in my daughter. We are really nervous.
Thanks
Frederic, it sounds like you need this as much as your daughter needs it. Which is no surprise because most adults as missing critical nutrients they need to help them thrive. And that’s where nootropics come in.
First of all, thank you for your article, it is very useful like all what you doing.
I have questions about your stack for ADD/ADHD:
– are taking all of ingredients all time (7/7 days) or taking brake like 5/7 or other way? I’m mostly wondering about sulbutiamina which as i know building tolerance fast,
– can i use modafinil to replace metylofenidat?
– have you tried semax/NA-semax/NA-semax-amidate for your ADD problem, and if so, what was the result?
– have you tried bromantan for your ADD problem, and if so, what was the result?
I apologise in advance about the spelling. English is not my first language.
Mateusz, I’m personally using everything I describe in the stack above every day including Sulbutiamine. I do not need to cycle any of nootropics. But I know that some find they need to cycle certain nootropics.
I think tolerance and cycling is largely dependent on dosage. If you keep the dosage within the recommended amount there’s not usually a problem. But everyone is different. And some will still need to cycle.
You may be able to use Modafinil in place of methylphenidate. But they have different mechanisms of action in your brain. I explain the difference in this article: https://nootropicsexpert.com/do-brain-enhancing-drugs-work-know-the-risks/.
I have not tried any of the other drugs you’ve mentioned so cannot comment on them.
David, Thank you for your answer. I just have couple more questions. Could you tell me what time you take which substance and it is taking on empty stomach or during the meal? The most important for me is to know how long time is from taking main drugs (metylofenidat) to the other compounds from stack.
I’ve already taken the follow stack:
– at 5:30 AM 200 mg Modafinil, B-complex, Vitamin D&K2 MK7, 10 mg Noopept, 500 mg agmatine sulfate, 500 mg Lion’s mane. Everything on empty stomach,
– at 6:00 AM I eat first breakfast and drink cup of coffee,
– at 10:00 AM I eat second breakfast and drink second cup of coffee,
– at 2:30 PM 10 mg noopept, 250 mg ALPHA GPC, 500 mg NALT, 700-800 mg ALCAR, 1000 mg omega 3,
– at 3:00 PM I eat lunch and drink last cup of coffee,
– at 6:00 PM 500 mg Lion’s mane, 500 mg agmatine sulfate, Vitamin B-12,
– at 7:00 PM I eat light dinner,
– at 10:00 PM I go to bed.
I’m thinking what i can change their. I have few problems with my day routine.
At first, I have reduction concentration and I’m feeling a little confused about 11-12 AM. I can’t split my modafinil dosage and take it after the early morning because then all time when I doing it i have huge problem with sleep. I’m looking for something which could help me during this decresing.
Maybe I should use ALCAR/NALT/ALPHA GPC or other compounds and if so what time I should take it to avid this condition.
The second problem starts about 16-17, when I starting fell a little tired, but i can’t afford to rest, because I usually have a lot of work during afternoon. I’ve felt much better when I add ALCAR and NALT to my stack, but still it isn’t enough.
I’ve already bought Vinpocetine, Sulbutiamine, Aniracetam and Rhodiola Rosea (I should get them next week). I have wonder if there will be a problem with using Vinpocetine with Agmentine Sulfate together. And what time should I use each of them?
One more time thank you a lot for all what are you doing, and one more time sorry for my bad language skill – I’m trying my best.
Mateusz, I think you’re making it too complicated. See the yellow box near the top? When it says 3-times per day it’s 8 AM, noon and 4 PM. When it says twice per day it’s 8 AM and noon. And once a day is 8 AM.
The nootropics in my 4 PM stack is to prevent me from crashing late afternoon.
I don’t worry about anything conflicting and I don’t worry about taking it with a meal. Because I know the fat-soluble ingredients of my stack will get delivered when I take my stack with a tablespoon of unrefined coconut oil.
Hi David,
Firstly, thank you for this site, it has been an invaluable resource for me!
I was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) as a child, but I do find I suffer with issues relating to impulsivity (controlling spending, talking over others etc). I have been using the following stack for just over 2 months with the exception of Mind Lab Pro which was added recently.
Before I started MLP I tried using 300mg of Alpha-GPC in my morning and noon stack and after 2-3 days became very depressed. That’s started to lift after stopping but seems to be creeping back again after starting Mind Lab Pro, though to a lesser extent.
My guess is that this could be too much acetylcholine and that the 500mg a day of CDP-Choline I’m getting from MLP is too much for me. Does this sound like anything you’ve come across before?
I think my next move will be to reduce MLP dosage to 2 a day (1 in AM, 1 at noon), increase my NALT dosage slightly and see how I get on.
Lastly, if I am getting too much acetylcholine as I suspect, do I really need the ALCAR in PL Energy, i.e. could it also be contributing to this?
My sleep is also trash, but nothing new there, still trying to find the perfect stack!
My AM stack
– Mind Lab Pro – 2 caps
– PL Energy – 2 caps
– NALT – 350mg
– NAC – 600mg
– Life Extension B-Complex – 1 cap
– PL Multi – 2 caps
– PL Prebiotic – 3 caps
– Fish oil – 875mg DHA/1125mg EPA
Noon stack
– Same as AM minus the fish oil
Sometimes I’ll add another dose of 700mg NALT, 600mg NAC and 700mg ALCAR late afternoon but don’t usually feel the need.
Bedtime
– PL sleep – 2 caps
– Magnesium biglycinate – 300mg
– Doctors best L-Tryptophan – 1g
– L-Theanine – 250mg
Jem, it sounds like you are one of the unfortunate few who are particularly sensitive to acetylcholine. There is 250 mg Citicoline in Mind Lab Pro. And the ALCAR in PL Energy is a cofactor that works with Citicoline to make acetylcholine. Yes, I’ve heard of this before but honestly in very, very few people. Especially at the dosages in these supplements.
Try doing half a dose of Mind Lab Pro and see if that helps. If not then stop Mind Lab Pro. But if you do completely stop MLP I suggest adding Lion’s Mane and Pine Bark Extract at least. Because you need the increase in Nerve Growth Factor and antioxidants for brain repair and maintenance.
Hello david,
I was wondering if you would tell me what you think of my stack for adhd symptoms. I am getting tested officially after dealing with these symptoms for a long time and talking to my therapist. I have done reasearch on these interactions but was wondering what your opinions would be on mixing these nootropics.
Morning
1g taurine, 150mg alpha gcp, 100mg caffine, 200mg l-Theanine, 250mg sensoril ashwaghanda, 750mg tyrosine, 600mg nac slow release, 300mg Rhodiola Rosea, 25mg CBD oil
Evening
1g taurine, 250mg Uridine,750mg tyrosine, 600mg nac slow release, 150mg alpha-Gcp, Vitamin A 25,000 I.U, 5g creatine, 1g Vitamin C, 5,000 I.U Vitamin D,
Night
200mg 5-htp, 500mg vitamin B5, 200mg ltheanine 50 mg p5p activated vitamin B6, 400mg magnesium Bisglycinate, 15mg zinc, 25mg CBD oil, 250mg green tea extract, 1500mg chamomile tea
Michael, your stacks look OK. But I do not recommend using your “Evening” stack in the evening. esp. L-Tyrosine. Unless you don’t want to sleep.
And I recommend switching the 200 mg 5-HTP for 500 mg T-Tryptophan. See my 5-HTP review for more info on why I don’t usually recommend it.
Please compare your suggested stack with the stack I describe in the post above. Because the ADHD stack above has been in use for over 12 years. And it’s now used by thousands around the world for ADHD with or without stimulants. Note: that Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine are optional for that stack. Unless you deal with depression.
Do you take aniracetam at the same time as ritalin? Is there any problem in taking 30mg of ritalin, 800mg of Piracetam, life extension 1 caps b-complex and 500mg of L-tyrosine, at the same time?
Tiago, I do and it works amazingly well for me.
Great! But is there any problem in taking 30mg of ritalin, 800mg of Piracetam, life extension 1 caps b-complex and 500mg of L-tyrosine, at the same time?
Tiago, there’s no problem with that stack if you also add 300 mg Alpha GPC or Citicoline.
I’m new to the world of nootropics. Currently take a daily dose of vyvanse, fish oil, and performance labs multi vitamin (that I bought based on your recommendation).
I noticed you talk about adding B vitamins to your stack, but you don’t have B vitamins in your ADHD stack. Do I get enough B vitamins from the Performance Labs multi-vitamin or should I take more?
LM, it depends on your age and how well you absorb these vitamins. I use an additional B-Complex on top of the Performance Lab Multi. Just to be sure I have adequate B-Vitamins in my system.
Likely a good idea for anyone over the age of 45.
Hey there!
I am taking 40mg of vyvanse daily and noticing lack of motivation and focus throughout my days. I have just ordered L-tyrosine and already have been taking ALCAR with Alpha GPC. My question is how safe would it be to take ALCAR and L-tyrosine + L-theanine to calm anxiety from vyvanse. I work long hours and need the focus and motivation throughout the day.
Jacob, the stack described in detail in the post above was designed to support the use of stimulants like Vyvanse. And make it more effective with less of the negative side effects.
My 9 year old daughter has severe ADHD in that for her it is beyond not focusing in school- she has a very difficult time with her emotional regulation. Because emotional regulation isn’t recognized as part of ADHD she was also diagnosed with high anxiety.
When she came home from school in March I realized it was the perfect time to try and deal with her ADHD/emotional disregulation w/o the prescription pills. I can deal with her inattention, but her emotional outbursts are debilitating for both of us so Ive been trying to find a way to get her out of what seems like a perpetual fight/flight situation.
To that end, over the past 6 months Ive been slowing adding suppliments.
Her current protocol is:
Morning:
Lithium Orotate 4mg (liquid)
Inositol 1500mg
2 MedPro pills
Niacin 500mg
B-12/Folic Acid/B-6
Evening:
Lithium Orotate 4mg (liquid)
Inositol 750mg
Vitamin D liquid 1000IU
Magnesium 200mg
Niacin 500mg
So far this is working Ok in that her outbursts are shorter than they used to be. It really seemed to change after she started the Inositol.
Ive been thinking about trying SAM-e and switching her individual B vitamins into one good B vitamin complex pill that has folate.
I was wondering if you think Im missing anything or overdoing anything. Again, my main concern is her inability to control her emotions when she gets upset, and she is always upset. She SCREAMS as if someone is cutting off her leg and often cusses, which is clearly not ok. Im desperate to help her because she clearly can’t help it and wants to be able to not be scared and unhappy all the time :(.
In addition, now that virtual school is starting back up again, I am going to try the Vyvanse again to see how things go because although the MedPro is good, it isn’t enough for all day school work and if she takes it in the afternoon it keeps her awake.
Thanks!
Beth, this is going to take more that one comment from me from the looks of it. First, switch the B-Vitamins to Life Extension BioActive B-Complex: https://amzn.to/2E8lqcy.
You likely saw good results from Inositol because it helps boost serotonin and dopamine receptor density. Improving the effectiveness of serotonin, GABA, glutamate and dopamine neurotransmitters in her brain. Scroll back up and read this section, “The Role of Norepinephrine and Dopamine in ADHD”.
This type of ADHD has problems with norepinephrine and how it’s used in the brain. It’s why some prescription stimulants help because they have an effect on dopamine AND norepinephrine. Both the availability of neurotransmitters as well as influencing how receptors and transporters work.
I think what’s missing in your stack is anything that directly boosts dopamine and acetylcholine. Supplements like L-Tyrosine and CDP-Choline.
Have you considered putting together a stack like I describe on this page? Because it works for thousands of people dealing with ADD and ADHD.
If you think you could use more help, consider scheduling an hour with me. And we’ll work through it together. https://nootropicsexpert.com/personal-consultations/
Hi David, i have ADHD too, but stimulants don’t work for me, it’s make me speedy but unable to concentrate. I try white strain Kratom few time and it’s help big time with concentration and tame my ADHD in general. When i take it firs time i say myself something like: “ha, thats how normal people can concentrate.” But unfortunately Kratom have too many bad side effect and have really short halflife.
Can y please help me and give me some advice for nootropicks whitch can have similar impact like White Kratom for me.
Ron, Kratom affects serotonin and norepinephrine pathways and dopamine D1 receptors which would explain why you had some success with it. Have you tried other strains of Kratom?
There are a couple of other herbs that act like SNRIs as well. Ginseng comes to mind. And Rhodiola Rosea and Turmeric/Curcumin act like MAOIs. I suggest you use the search function or just scroll through the list of nootropics here on Nootropics Expert. And look for nootropics that affect the dopamine and serotonin pathways in your brain.
There’s more than one kind of ADHD. Dr. Amen has used brain scans to identify 7 different types. And each type may respond to different supplements. But they’ve all got problems with dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin one way or another.
hey David: My son 16 y/o son was diagnosed with ADD about 4 years ago. he was on Vayarin and now Accentrate – his pediatrician (and I) wanted to avoid dugs as he is also on meds for anxiety. As I was just going to reorder his Accentrate I came accross your article and am wondering if the Mind Lab Pro may be a better option for him. Any advice?
Thanks!
Wendy, I found this Accentrate product you referred to. And all it contains is:
Omega-3s EPA & DHA
L-Methylfolate
Vitamin B6 / Vitamin B12
Vitamin D3
Riboflavin
While beneficial to ADD brain they’ve completely missed supporting dopamine and acetylcholine.
Mind Lab Pro is far better from the ADD brain. All you need to do is add a good DHA supplement. Like Mega DHA from Nature’s Way. He needs 1,000 mg DHA per day.
My recommendation for complete ADD support is the stack I detailed in this post. I’ve been using it daily for 12 years while using Ritalin and it completely takes care of my Adult ADD symptoms. I also experimented with a one year holiday from Ritalin just using this nootropic stack. And it worked as well.
Thousands of other ADD and ADHD people are using this stack as well. With great success. It should work for your son too.
Thank you SO much David! I am going to order today and see if we can tell a difference. I appreciate your help!
Hi, David! Great article!
I am a 50-year-old man from Norway. I have experienced the classical signs of ADD without having a diagnose. I recently have tried to use:
– L-Tyrosine
– NADH
– CoQ10
– Vitamin B12
All in the morning before food. I feel much better but not completely well.
I have seen a lot of your videos and read some of your articles. Thank you for the great work!
I thinking about buying Performance Labs:
– Multi for men
– Stim
– MTC
– Energy
and Mindlab Pro.
Witch supplement in addition to these do you recommend
and can you recommend a specific brand?
Best
Alf
Alf, for ADD I recommend the stack detailed in the post above – including Mind Lab Pro, ALCAR, L-Tyrosine, Alpha GPC, and DHA. Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine are not critical to this stack.
If you get Performance Lab Energy you can eliminate 1 or 2 doses of ALCAR per day.
Performance Lab Stim should be used “as needed”. Definitely recommend the PL Multi for men
OK, thank you very much for the quick and good answer!
I can get Alpha GPC and ALCAR at Iherb, but not Vinpocetine to Norway. Is Vinpocetine critical?
I also use Solaray L-Tyrosin 500 mg, not NALT.
Alf
Alf, Vinpocetine is only ‘critical’ if you need more blood flow in your brain. I notice a difference when I use Vinpocetine. Keep in mind that more blood flow means more oxygen and nutrients to brain cells.
An alternative to Vinpocetine for blood flow is Pine Bark Extract which may be easier for you to get in Norway.
Sorry forgot one thing,
If you use Mind Lab Pro and Energy, it is no need for extra ALCAR and NALT?
Specialty if you use Stem sometimes as well?
Alf
Alf, great question! Check my dosage recommendations. You should be using ALCAR and NALT 2 or 3-times per day for ADHD.
Which means the you can skip the ALCAR and NALT dose each time you use Mind Lab Pro and PL Energy. But you may need to add a little NALT to make up the 500 mg dose. And the same with ALCAR. Then use the full recommended dose of NALT and ALCAR when you’re not using MLP and PL Energy.
Performance Lab Stim is used “as needed” and I don’t consider it a part of my regular stack.
Hi David,
I’m a midlife NZ mum, working, parenting and living with ADHD and recently found your work. I’ve also been toying with tons of these things for years on top of MPH and it’s great to learn a few new tricks that I’m going to try adding to my stack – great work!
My question is one of pragmatics and I haven’t been able to find a comment on this yet but it is simply re TIME! I’ve been manually creating similar stacks for myself and my daughter for several years now and it currently takes about a 4 hrs pr month to create 2 x 4 Webster packs for 4 weeks of all these pills! And every now and then I get interrupted and lose track which can be a big problem. Oh to be able to put them all in 1 pill!!! Then of course there’s the issue that some of these need to be on empty stomach, some with food, I actually need a webster pack with 6 slots / 7 days rather than the 4 I’ve got.
So for a busy mum (and hey, aren’t we all busy) – I would LOVE to hear any tips / your routine of how you speed up getting all these things into your system every day.
Thanks again for your work and I may pop in again with some more questions once I’ve trawled through all these comments!
Ruby
Ruby, I’ve simply developed a routine where I know exactly goes into my Adult ADD stack at 8 AM, noon and 4 PM. It’s such a habit now I could do it in my sleep I think. And maybe I have. Need to ask my wife about that one.
That’s the thing about pre-formulated nootropic stacks for specific health issues. The trouble is each one of us has unique biology and what dosage of each supplement works for me may not work for you.
And I solved the fat-soluble vs water soluble problem years ago. I use a tablespoon of unrefined coconut or MCT Oil each time I take my supplements. That helps fat-soluble delivery into cells. And does not interfere with the water soluble ingredients. It saves me needing to worry about taking anything with food. And I don’t need to worry that some of the amino acids I’m taking as supplements will fight over the same transporters that the amino acids from my food want to use.
do I not take the risk of a serotonergic syndrome by taking these nortropics?
There is nothing in this stack that is contraindicated with most meds. But please check the side effects of each one which you will find in the linked, complete review of each nootropic. Just to make sure you don’t get into trouble.
David, I really need your guidance.
I’m Brazilian, I’m 22 years old, I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child.
I already used ritalin, I couldn’t continue due to depression.
Today I use vyvanse, 40mg.
But I always feel exhausted, confused mentally, without being able to express my ideas clearly. I feel like I’m not at my best.
I took many years of antidepressants, but I felt like shit with them.
I haven’t taken any antidepressants for 5 months, but in compensation I feel very angry, impatient and sad.
I tried to use the following noorthropics for a period and had the following reactions:
– rhodiola rosea – it gave me a lot of headache I couldn’t use it for more than 2 weeks, despite making me very smart for a long period of time.
– l-theanina – perfect at first, it controlled my laugh and made me intelligent – after 1 month I didn’t notice this anger control anymore.
– acethyl l-carnitine – I did not notice differences in mood or concentration.
– panax ginseng – positive headache and less effective than rhodiola rosea.
– passionflower – I am slightly calm but I don’t feel so smart.
what would you recommend to take with vyvanse 40mg and improve this feeling of confusion and anger?
my psychiatrist is unaware of the effects of these supplements and I am already hopeless of finding a professional adept at alternative treatments here in Brazil.
I take omega 3 and multivitamin.
Eternally grateful, thank you!
Carol, a lot of your problem likely comes from the damage caused by antidepressants. And it’s very difficult to heal your brain after long-term use because these drugs mess with things like gene expression. And that’s not a good idea.
Please take a look at the other adaptogens in this post: https://nootropicsexpert.com/top-7-nootropic-adaptogens-to-conquer-anxiety-and-stress/. And consider trying something from that list.
I cannot make specific recommendations here because what needs to be fixed is unknown. Sometimes all we can do is keep experimenting with different supplements until we find what works for each of us.
I have suggested many different nootropic stacks for various issues here on Nootropics Expert. But these recommendations are for general use by most people. The thing is each of us is unique and as you are learning may react differently than someone using the same thing who is the same sex and same age.
The nootropic stack I describe above was designed specifically to be used with something like Vyvanse. But it will only work at the recommended dosages and used long-term. Individually, something like ALCAR is unlikely to produce a noticeable difference. But used in combination with the rest of the stack is very effective.
But while you are experimenting, try Lithium Orotate which may help with the anger: https://nootropicsexpert.com/lithium-orotate/
Hello David,
thanks for all your insight. Regardless of the supplements, I have a question about ADHD/ADD. It would be really great if you shared your insights on this because I can relate to your specific situation … I think.
But do you personally feel you would be in need of Ritalin if you had another profession? Say an ambulance crew or a firefighter – something, where you’d constantly get a lot of external stimuli vs. what you’re doing now. You’re writing goes more in the opposite direction. You’re not thrown into a situation where you should act. It all has to come out of yourself. If you didn’t do anything. Nothing would happen.
And also, do you think people are born with ADHD or does it develop, do you think, in most people over time. That you sorta have a predisposition and then, given the right circumstances, it develops into …
They have this every lasting discussion in storytelling about which is more important, the plot, or the characters. Going back to Aristotle I think. But without a plot character can’t reveal it’s self. And without character, you’re plot isn’t going to be worth a whole lot.
Could it be the same for ADHD (and many others) that the plot, namely the beginning, decides whether or not the character is going to develop this or that way?
I know about the identical twins. But most of the studies I’ve seen are one dimensional. As if you’re in the discussion about plot and character and picked aside. Yes, it’s there – but that doesn’t mean it has to develop per sé.
You might have been a great football player but if you haven’t tried it:).
There are studies going in the opposite direction as well, tying psychological profiles and life experiences to certain illnesses. With numbers going into over ninety percent.
It does not supplement related… still interesting I think.
Jean, I think you’re right that if I was doing something else I would not feel the need to go back on Ritalin. But I’ve been in executive management or running my own business all my adult life so this is pure speculation.
But I am convinced that you’re born with ADD or ADHD. Our brains are wired differently compared to “normal” folk. I wouldn’t have this problem if my brain wasn’t wired like this. And sometime wonder how my life would have taken a very different course if I was diagnosed when I was in my early 20’s.
Hi David.
Fasinating Article.
To cut a long story hort, I had akathathisia in 2008 and tardive dysto ia/dyskinesia from an SSRI. . (That is hell on earth)
In 2015 had a deep brain stimulation operation to control it. Akathisia went that year too
After many trials of different meds, we plumped for dextroamphetamine (although the generics in the UK are pretty crap).
After much effort we got to 20mg a day (and this controlled my mood and TD). (7.5/7.5/5mg)
Everything had been fine for 2 years.
Then after massive amounts of stress in Sept 2019 to Christmas, it slowly stopped working.
It just caused irritation, higher BP and pulse rate etc as if i was taking too much.
Now when i start the (now trying 15mg again), the first 5mg is fine, then when i feel it wears off i take the next pill and it is still happening.
My Cortisol and Adrenaline levels in my urine where high (although my Vanilmandelate (VMA) was low meaning i am not breaking the adrenaline down. Maybe a COMT problem) although I have been fine for over 2 and 1/2 years. Stress has just wacked my out.
Even tyrosine can cause a similar effect (and especially dl phenylalanine) can cause the same effect. I know PS can reduce cortisol
I really need this to work again but kind of stuck.
Is there anything to recommend in your stack (or even other stacks), as if i just wait 3 months to sort my HPA axis (as such have also drank to much alcohol so could be B1 deficiant). or a Liver clense?
However even though i didnt take everything in you stack i am hypo (which is controlled by 2 grains NDT) and a very good B complex and did better on a keto diet (although paleo type is fine too).
I have tried everything. The psychs just don seem to understand it, and say or you must have downregulated dopamine receptors but it has been 9 months now
lisdexamfetamine is a bit kinder at 50mg but only works for 6 hours even though dex works for 4-5 hours.
Any suggestions to calm the irritability. Maybe NAC would be good?
Many Thanks
Russ
Russ, I went through a similar thing where Ritalin stopped working after 2 years of use. The stack I describe in this post is how I solved the problem and continue to use to this day (12 years later).
There is very likely some truth to your comment about downregulated dopamine receptors. This stack will help that because it includes things like Lion’s Mane which helps to repair those receptors.
Ashwagandha and L-Theanine both help lower cortisol. And NAC also helps re-sensitize dopamine receptors which I also use 3-times per day.
Thank you so much David.
I have been thinking of taking a BPC157 cycle (some people take it with TB500) people swear by it (on Reddit anyhow) either if it is amphetamine abuse or just plain, tolerance. The first couple of days are tough
http://europepmc.org/article/PMC/5333585
Have you heard of this?
Reddit user seem to like it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anhedonia_Recovery/comments/77wnn2/bpc157_for_anhedonia_and_drug_abuse_success/
Many Thanks
Russ
Russ, I haven’t done the research but that looks like pretty convincing evidence to me.
Excellent article, thanks very much. Also the book
Thank you Frederic. Much appreciated.
I have a daughter , 6 years old, and it has been impossible for us to medicate her for now, due to the place we live.
She has ADD ( ADHD, Inatentive type) and with your article, we have picked a combination of nootropics.
Right now, she is taking 100 Mg of sulbutiamine daily, in in only 7 days, we have noticed she is more alert and talkative.
I ordered (and still waiting) for the folowing
Synapsa Bacopa Monnieri Powder
Huperzine A 1% Powder
What do you think? would you recommend anything else?
Thanks very much
Frederic, if she’s clinically ADD I can only recommend what I’ve detailed in the above post. Which does not include Huperzine-A because it can only be used every second or third day. And needs to be used with a choline supplement like Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline.
Hi david
It’s been a while since I’ve posted
Hope you are handling this covid19 pandemic well, and you And your family remain healthy.
Could you tell me if this stack is safe with adderall 30mg.
I already us SAMe 1600mg, citicoline 1500mg, l-tyrosine 1500 mg.
I wanted to add dopa mucuna 400mg. I’ve taken it alone, and it works. Would I need to remove another supplement, or can I just add dopa mucuna on?
Thanks
SH, me and my family are safe so far and we continue with wearing masks, sometimes gloves when going into certain stores, and lots of hand washing.
Your stack should work well with Adderall as long as you follow the timing during the day I think I detailed in the above post. You goal is to support Adderall’s use during the day and avoid that late afternoon crash. So timing is important.
But you are missing a couple key nootropic ingredients including ALCAR to work with Citicoline and a high quality B-Complex. Mind Lab Pro works well too because among other benefits it also helps keep your brain cells healthy and protects them from any damage caused by using Adderall.
Glad to hear your all doing well.
David thanks for your reply.
I take 5000 mg b12 with the SAMe, tyrosine, and citicoline, wait 30 min then take the adderall
All this around 7am
At night Magnesium, 5htp, and source naturals “theanine serene” and high doses of vit c to cut any effects of adderall so I can sleep and avoid a crash.
So it’s ok if I take the dopa Mucuna in the am w the rest to enhance the adderall??
And ALCAR I would take in the am as well?
If I purchase mind pro lab After I finish this stash I have, I just take it in the am w adderall and dopa mucuna correct? And that’s it? I was afraid the mucuna would interact Negatively w the SAMe And adderall.
SH
SH, Mucuna is in the AM because it boosts the dopamine that Adderall needs to work. And ALCAR is a cofactor and compliments Citicoline in the production of acetylcholine.
Both Mucuna and Tyrosine are precursors to the synthesis of dopamine. And the use of Mind Lab Pro in the morning would compliment this stack. If you don’t use MLP then use a high quality B-Complex. Because the B-Vitamins are required cofactors in the synthesis of all your major neurotransmitters.
Tky as always, I’ve learned so much from you!
I believe I may need to stay on Adderall and then possibly stack more nootropics? In your experience with the Ritalin, do you get dry mouth? If so, do you notice that stacking with nootropics can also ease that side effect. I know you said they help with the crash.
AD, I have zero side effects from Ritalin. And I’m convinced it’s because I support its use with the nootropic stack described in this post.
This post is applicable to anyone using stimulants like Adderall or Ritalin. And the same stack can be used (for some people) in place of stimulants.
The idea behind this protocol is to supply your brain with the neurotransmitters it needs to make full use of Adderall. While maintaining brain cells and cerebral blood flow to prevent possible damage caused by stimulant use.
And the 3rd afternoon stack is meant to prevent a crash once the stimulant leaves your system.
@AD. I have not noticed dry mouth with my very low dose Adderall plus extensive stack including low doses of many of the supplements David included in his excellent article above.
However I do struggle with dry nose.
I’ve not been able to isolate a specific supplement that seems to be responsible.
It is quite possible I’m not taking enough water and may be taking too much caffeine that supposedly has a dehydrating effect.
Hi David,
Do you know if it’s possible/safe to take these nootropics with Strattera?
Thanks
Ali
Ali, this ADHD/ADD nootropic stack was designed to be used with and support prescription stimulants used to treat ADHD.
Hello,
I am currently on 30 mg of vyvanse and don’t feel that it is working as well as it use to. I really don’t want to increase the dose and looking to eventually come off all together.
For someone just starting on nootropics, are the doses you listed above good for someone just starting out or at a lower dose and increase over time?
Erica, the protocol described in this post is for someone either using prescription stimulants or as a replacement for the same. So to answer your question my answer is “yes”.
David, I had a late diagnosis of Inattentive Combined type. I do not take stimulants, I however take a few simple things to see if it would help. B6, Zinc, Copper (to mitigate waste of Copper from taking the zinc in proper ratio), B12, due to other reasons, and Berberine, of which I am hoping will lower high LDL. I have had a 23andme done, and sent the raw data to a genetics hacker, so to speak, and she confirmed that I have genes that point to possibility of ADHD. I also have PCSK9 gene pointing to familial high LDL, so the Berberine is perfect for me. I am now on the 1 1/2 month of taking it and will retest LDL after I am done 3 months of use. I find that my mood is uplifted, and that there is more motivation in me, albeit, I have had to combat the destruction of self esteem due to previous failures that where not understood until after the diagnosis of ADD. Thus, to make a long story shorter, I am on a budget, I don’t know if I simply did not get into the right field that I am not a high earner..but alas, it is what it is. I would like to pinpoint what I may be needing, do you take “measurements” of your neurotransmitters, or have a checklist of how to tell what neurotransmitter shortages are life for each one? I cant’ waste money and time figuring out what is lower in me. I have had an EEG test at a biofeedback place, and yes, my Alpha and Deltas are red hot… LOL. So I am meditating and sleeping with my eyes wide open…yeah!!! Whoopee…I however did not go get the treatments, and am looking for more “affordable” methods. Like many humans, I may have melatonin issues as per the data, and I have mythelation problems..but I know that only 1/3 of the people with genetic markers actually manifest the shortcomings of their DNA. If you have, any Genetic Markers and What to Take info that also would be “the bomb”. Thanks, and thanks for putting up those videos.
Sorry, forgot to mention, I have taken Bacopa 1 a day….by AOR….and found great improvement in my visual memory, as if I were 38 again…20 years ago..I was that age. I am very happy, but stopped taking it after 2 months. I usually stop and go stop and go due to my deep ceded desire to not be reliant on things. I figure as soon as I build a good system I can simply let go of the supps and only take as needed. I take Vitamin D, and C…daily, no matter what though, also not mentioned because I consider them my base, not for ADHD.
Cathy, see my other comment. But once you find a nootropic stack that works for you I encourage to continue with it long-term. Once you find something that works why quit?
Cathy, genetics are certainly involved but vary enough between each of us that the best we can do is come up with a protocol that generally works for everyone with ADHD.
At a bare minimum I suggest including L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, DHA and a high quality Multi in your stack. You may also want to add a high quality B-Complex and Alpha GPC.
Forget about neurotransmitter testing as it’s useless. Here’s a good set of labs for any neurohacker to consider: https://nootropicsexpert.com/neurohackers-guide-to-lab-tests/
@Erica. I’m new to this group but not new to biohacking. I really admire and appreciate David’s terrific work with this site. It has quickly become one of my favorites.
We have to remember that although we are all mammals and humans, there are some individual factors. Some of that is genetic, some of that is acquired.
Some of us have accumulated toxins that are affecting the brain and or microbiome and liver.
We all have psychological nicks and scratches from living in an imperfect world.
Some of us listened to mom and ate our broccoli, others got away with eating too many french fries, etc.
Much of my biohacking experience comes from support groups for those doing heavy metal detox, especially Cutler protocol. There are some *really* sickly and chemically sensitive people in those groups. Mercury plus arsenic has a reputation for really messing up liver function. Those folks really struggle to tolerate so many substances that, on paper, should be quite helpful.
I suspect some of my family members and I have genetic sensitivity to caffeine. I had a REALLY frightening experience with caffeine plus 5mg Adderall during the first week I was on the meds. I was like a messed up Meth addict with heart pounding and wanting to do crazy things for about 20 minutes until the effect gradually settled down. After that I did not take another cup of coffee for over a year even though I really like the taste.
I think it is quite wise to start with low doses of supplements and when possible, medications too, and gradually work up to more normal doses.
I also think we should learn about commonly reported side effects of the things we are taking.
I strongly share David’s view about stacking Rx and natural substances in intelligent ways. This is what has worked best for me and it makes the most common sense. We are optimizing the body’s natural biochemical processes.
Learning how the body, especially the liver, breaks down various substances can be important too. For example, we can be hyperfocused on how to make more of the catecholamines and how to get the body to convert them and use them more efficiently. However don’t forget that eventually the liver will break them down. You may make too much of the Cats for your liver’s sluggish ability to break them down at healthy rates. You can end up on a rollercoaster of energy and focus. I suffered with that, especially related to methylation support. Remember methylation is needed to make adrenaline, etc.
The potential health benefits of tweaking one’s biohacks are worth the effort. My life has been transformed due to willingness to go beyond the mainstream, corporate medicine scheme. I wish that for you too.
I am diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD). I eat healthy, do sports etc. Here’s my stack:
Morning:
10 mg Ritalin
500 mg ALCAR
B-Vitamine-Complex
Afternoon:
500 mg L-Thyrosine (because I take my Ritaline in the morning) or a second dose of 10 mg Ritaline
Ginko Bilboa
occasionaly: Coffee, Guarana, Coffee+L-Theanine
Evening:
occasionally: Fish Oil + Magnesium
I would like to stick to the products I already have. Do you think my stack is sufficient? Is the timing correct? (especcialy regarding T-Thyrosine)
Daniel, depending on your age you likely need L-Tyrosine in the morning too. And a dose of ALCAR at noon or when you take your 2nd Ritalin dose. If you crash late afternoon you need another dose of L-Tyrosine and ALCAR.
I’d change your Omega-3 to a DHA supplement. Because you need 1,000 mg DHA per day. And take it in the morning because it can be stimulating.
Thanks David your video on Nootropics for ADHD was really helpful for me instead of going in blind without knowing which noots to start with.
Hi David.
Wonderful resource. It was indispensable in my research. Thank you.
I’m an adult male, late 20s, diagnosed ADHD with a Vyvanse 40mg prescription. I’ve only been taking the vyvanse a little over a month now, though I’d previously taken it in college to positive effect. I was previously on Concerta.
I’ve done a bit of research and created a stack. It seems like, though, when taking the various nootropics the same time I take vyvanse, the vyvanse focus effect seems significantly reduced, while I retain the physical energy, sweats, chest tightness and increased heart rate. Could I be inhibiting the vyvanse with my nootropic stack?
I also shared with my doctor that the Vyvanse took forever to kick in and didn’t last very long and have picked up an increased dosage (50mg). I previously tried Alpha GPC but I think it made it impossible for me to focus on one thing. I have some D,L-Phenylaline as well that I’m considering trying in place of the L-Tyrosine. I use the taurine for is purported heart support benefits, as I’m fearful of the potential for cardiac issue.
I’m considering cutting all of the amino acids and just using the new 50mg for a while to see how that goes, then re-introducing things slowly. But if someone has an idea, I’d love to hear it. Thanks.
6am (Empty Stomach)
– NAC Sustain 1200mg
– L-Tyrosine 500mg
– Mushrooms
– Lions Mane 1000mg
– 5 Defenders 1000mg
– MagMind x2
– Taurine 1000mg
– Inositol 1/4 tsp w/ black tea
745am (After breakfast)
– 1 tbsp MCT Oil (C8, C10, C12)
– Vyvanse 40mg
– Mind Lab Pro (single serving)
– ALCAR 500mg + CoQ10 80mg + PQQ 40mg
– Vitamins
– Whole Food Multi+
– Whole Food B Complex+
– D-3, 1000IU
– Magnesium Complex (L-Theronate, Glycinate, Taurate)
– Taurine 1000mg
– Curcumin 1000mg
– Fish Oil + 1000mg DHA
Noon (After lunch)
– ALCAR 500mg + CoQ10 80mg + PQQ 40mg
– Cordyceps-M 1000mg
– Magnesium Complex
– Curcumin 500mg
– Taurine 500mg
– NAC Sustain 600mg
6PM (Come down)
– ALCAR 500mg (x1)
– L-Tyrosine (x1)
– Vitamin C (x1)
– Magnesium Complex
– Curcumin 1000mg
10PM (Pre-Sleep)
– Reishi 415 1000mg
– Taurine 1000mg
– CherryPURE 500mg
– NAC Sustain 1200mg
– (sometimes) Luminite x1
It will take some time and trial and error to figure out what’s causing those side effects.
I suggest you become familiar with the exact mechanism of action for Vyvanse. That will help you understand what you need to support to make Vyvanse work more efficiently (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisdexamfetamine#Mechanism_of_action). And support your brain while using it.
Then start with one or two and build from there until you experience the negative reaction. I’d start with L-Tyrosine and ALCAR.
Hi! I was having heart palpitations and it was very concerning. Turns out it may have been a B1 deficiency. I took a high dose B complex, and also Benfotiamine morning and evening (reportedly a fat soluble B1 that crosses the BBB better), and I haven’t had a palpitation since. I’m sorry I don’t have doses and brands at the moment. I heard about it from a couple sources (Dr. Berg among them) and it worked for me. I hope it works for you as well. All the best.
@ Curious. Remember NAC is cysteine that will feed production of substances needed for liver detox–glutathione and especially sulfate. Refer to the diagram here.
http://mercuryandmore.weebly.com/methylation-figure.html
I think liver sulfation is involved in the breakdown of catecholamines. I wonder if this is causing the Cats to not be retained normally.
Maybe this is causing you to break down your medication too quickly. Maybe you then responded by increasing the dose. I fear that is causing too much of an effect at some times of the day but then the effect declines too quickly.
Some people who have heavy metals as a contributing factor will be sensitive to NAC and especially lipoic acid. The sulfur in them can kick up HMs excessively.
Lipoic acid has been shown to move mercury INTO the brain and organs. This is A. Cutler, PhD Chemistry on the Gregus study of inorganic mercury and lipoic acid in mice.
http://onibasu.com/archives/am/74605.html
Excessive mobilization can be very dangerous when there has been recent exposure to mercury. A dear friend paid a very, very heavy price for her mistake in this area. She was not actually taking a big dose for most people. She was just unusually sensitive to LA. “Burning brain” sensation was the most frightening symptom over the first week. I’ve heard many unpleasant reports in the detox support groups.
We can take too much of a good thing–sigh : (
Hi David, so the yellow stack at the top was when you weren’t using Ritalin correct? When you started using Ritalin you only used the Nootropics of Alcar(800mg) and NALT(2,400mg)?
Ameya, same stack both with and without Ritalin.
Hi David, I’ve been taking Adderall for the last year for my ADHD. However I always have that crash at late evening/night. The medicine is also not as effective as it once was. If I start taking the 2,400 mg of NALT and the 800 MG of ALCAR, will I not have the crash and tolerance anymore? Or should I also take other supplements to avoid these two issues. I also take Mind Lab Pro(two tablets) daily. Thank you!
Ameya, The stack I describe in this post was designed to support prescription stimulant use and to prevent a late afternoon crash. And to prevent tolerance from long-term use.
I’ve also included timing beside the recommend dosage for each nootropic mentioned on this page.
For example, 800 mg NALT 3-times per day would be a dose in the morning, another at noon and the last dose around 4 PM.
Any nootropic that is used twice per day would be a dose in the morning and another at noon.
Also, you need to support neuronal health to really prevent tolerance. And not just provide the precursors for things like dopamine. That’s where Mind Lab Pro, Aniracetam, DHA, coconut or MCT Oil, and a high quality multi come in. Because you need to repair and maintain neurons every day.
Hi David,
Thanks for that info! I only take Adderall 4 times a week(Monday-Thursday). So should I take this stack on those days only or all 7 days?
Ameya, good question. I think you’d get the best results short- and long-term using this stack 7-days a week. It would support Adderall usage and it’ll support your brain when not using it too.
Hi David, do you take 4 tablets of Mind Lab pro daily for your ADHD stack or 2 tablets? I’m on 2 right now but wondering if I should increase to 4. Also you never take 2 days off from Mind Lab Pro even though the directions say you should try to take 2 days off every 5 days? Thanks!
Ameya, I suggest dosing half of your dose of Mind Lab Pro in the morning and the other half at noon. So that would be 1 or 2 capsules in the AM and the other 1 or 2 capsules at noon. That should keep you going all day.
And I see zero reason to cycle MLP because the amount of each ingredient is low enough that it should not build up unused compounds in fat cells. I’ve seen no evidence otherwise. I imagine Opti Nutra who make Mind Lab Pro suggest cycling just to be super safe.
Also you mention a long list of other products is it recommended to take all of that?
Jose, if you mean this list: https://nootropicsexpert.com/what-i-take/. I have dosage and timing during the day for each nootropic. And yes, I take ALL of that. Dosing is morning, noon, around 4 PM and 60 mins. before bed. Depending on which nootropic it is.
For example, I use NALT 3-times per day. Morning, noon and 4 PM. It supports my use of twice daily Ritalin. And prevents the later afternoon stimulant crash.
Hi at the beginning you show the stack that you use. Starting with “mind lab pro” and everything underneath that. Is that all taken daily on top of the mind lab pro?
Hey David,
Terrific article! I’ve been diagnosed adult ADD for about ten years and have taken Concerta (now at 54mg) off and on during that time. My question is, do you take many of these nootropics with your Ritalin at the same time, or over the course of a day. Just curious about interactions, and or competition for absorption etc. The nootropics I use for the most part are Alpha GPC, ALCAR, Tyrosine and L-Theanine. At night, I’ll often supplement with Ashwagandha, (sometimes) SAM-e and more theanine for sleep. Thanks again for this informative article. Matt
Matt, If you check the yellow box near the top of the post you’ll see dosages with timing during the day.
The first two stacks that I take are morning and at noon with Ritalin. The stack I take at 4 PM prevents the stimulant crash when the Ritalin leaves my system.
Hey David, first off thanks for redirecting me here from the other post. I’m clinically dosed with ADHD currently take 10 mgs Adderall 2-3 times a day. I still have trouble doing boring tasks. I went up to 15 and 20mgs but I started getting really depressed and lethargic. I am a college student and I cannot afford all the different nootropics in the stack. Are there an essential few that would work well enough to get my back focusing again that I can use alongside Adderall?
Aaron, the basics of this stack are ALCAR, NALT or L-Tyrosine, DHA, unrefined coconut oil or MCT Oil, and a high quality multivitamin or at the very least a high quality B-Complex like the one from Life Extension. Recommended dosages and timing during the day are in this post.
Hello David,
I have everything in the stack covered. With some minor alterations. They are all supplements with as trustworthy a producer as you can find. Overall supplement quality is pretty low so better spend more on less than all the cheapest products on the market.
Sulbutiamine and Aniracetam, however, are prohibited. That’s to say – you can buy them on the internet (not the dark web:) but regular webshops with extremely high visibility. But it just doesn’t feel all that right. And it’s expensive. Shipping is almost the same if I was to order it in the U.S. But that’s a problem. My shipment was seized by customs. I actually tried to phone in advance but I never got an answer so I went ahead.
I must add, I mailed them after receiving their letter and they were very understanding, friendly and explained everything. There isn’t any kind of FDA checking the nootropics from the company’s here, that’s for sure. I can get sulbutiamine from Amazon.com, that wouldn’t be a problem. But aniracetam is another story. I could get it, no problem actually – but it goes through a guy in a different country who distributes high-quality nootropics from reputable U.S. sources. I would have to ask him two weeks in advance, etc. His prices a very reasonable.
And now the questions:)
But how important is the sulbut/aniracetam combo for your stack?
Is sulbutiamine alone worth it? – that guy with the side-job feels like it’s very habit-forming(but he’s not right all the time, that’s for sure;).
Is there a need to take days or longer periods off?
thank you for your with the site!
It’s great.
Nico, this ADHD stack will work just fine without adding Aniracetam or Sulbutiamine. Those nootropics are optional but I included them because they work so well and I’ve personally used them daily for over 10 years.
If Sulbutiamine is your only easy choice then yes, it’s worth adding to our stack. See my review on Sulbutiamine for more on why I say this. Some find that they need to cycle it to prevent tolerance. I’ve never had that problem.
And anything can be habit forming I suppose. Sulbutiamine is a version of Vitamin B1 (thiamine). Not sure how anyone gets addicted to a vitamin. But nothing surprises me anymore.
What are your thoughts for using Dexedrine instead of ritalin with Nalt and Alcar?
Judie, this stack was designed to work with methylphenidate or amphetamines. They have slightly different mechanisms of action in the brain but both require dopamine and acetylcholine. Which is what these nootropics support.
Thanks for this, David. 37 year old male just diagnosed with ADD. Currently on Adderall with fine results, but looking for the long-term play.
I’m curious how you’d approach stacking from a step-by-step basis… which items on the list to start with in what order… to make sure I’m able to really understand what’s working for me and in what dose.
My impulse is to start with your stack and work from there. But my wife brought me back to earth in terms of treating this more like a biohacker’s experiment.
Also, any thoughts on the book “Finally Focused” and his functional medicine approach? In the book, the doc recommends CurcumaSorb Mind (which he formulated) basically as an amped-up OPC supplement, citing some interesting research behind it. I was going to head that direction first before I found this page…
Thanks for all you do!
Mitch, I’ve looked at other stuff and keep coming back to this. Because it’s worked for me for the last 12 years. And for thousands of others dealing with ADD/ADHD with or without stimulants.
The basics are L-Tyrosine (dopamine), ALCAR (acetylcholine and brain cell fuel), DHA (brain cell health), and a bio-identical B-Complex. That will get you started and support the use of Adderall. But following dosage recommendations and timing during the day.
Hello, David, I have been an inattentive type since childhood. Thanks to you, I have made corrections to my treatment and this will probably help my father too. but I just started to form a set
At the moment, my stack:
l-thyrosine 1000mg 2-times per day
Alcar-1000mg 2-times per day
l-tryptophane 250~mg 2-times
zinc 80mg 1-time per day
according to the situation, I use theanine, gotu kola(for relaxation of blood vessels) dmae(I don’t understand how it works, but there is an effect)
mail will bring me NAC, inositol, PS with Ginkgo Biloba Extract, Ashwagandha
i want Sulbuthiaminum, vit B, C, D, Pycnogenol®, alpha-gpc(only help adhd or add too?)
I have no problems with hyperactivity(only anxiety, remission) maybe I’m drinking something superfluous?
sorry for my eng.
oh yes, from the current supplement the effect is good
Michael, the B-Complex vitamins are very important for ADD/ADHD for so many reasons. Along with the other vitamins you mention. Here’s a link to a post I wrote that explains why: https://nootropicsexpert.com/13-vitamins-essential-for-the-optimized-brain/. You need one the is bio-identical like the complex made by Life Extension: https://amzn.to/2Ko99k8
Pycnogenol primarily for better blood flow. But also helps with dopamine and norepinephrine which is a problem with ADD.
And Alpha GPC because it’s needed to make acetylcholine along with ALCAR and the B-Vitamins. Needed for brain cell signaling which is also a problem with ADD/ADHD.
Thank you I bought this product with Vitamin B, Nalt and Alpha GPC
i want join aniracetam, but in my country, which invented nootropics, it is difficult to obtain it. may try piracetam
there is still a very important topic.
My mother has been anxious for many years. Prescribed 600mg Pregabalin (Lyric)
what antioxidant to add, against oxidative processes. Maybe something else, I do not want interaction.
Doctors do not understand supplements
Michael, looks like it would be best to avoid anything that affect GABA while using that drug. Please see the sections “Oxidative stress” and “Inflammation” in this post for some ideas: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-supplements-for-brain-fog/
NAC – 600mg twice per day(one of the best things I’ve tried)
NALT- 700 mg twice per day ( i love it)
b-comlex(lifeextension) – one capsule per day
tryptophan – 250mg 1-time per day
theanine, coffein optional
Sulbutiamine – 400 mg twice per day( it works)
phosphatidylserine + ginkgo over time causes depression, irritability. ashwagandha tired me and brain fog.
I figured out a little neurotransmitters. and it looks like my brain has an excess of acetylcholine. alpha gpc or alcar gives me depression, muscle tightness, racing thoughts. only dmay works fine.
anything related to dopamine I like. the thought arose: 5 days to drink tyrosine, 2 days uridine (for new synapses). or may combine uridine and tyrosine together, but there are no reports of such a combination.
Michael, it could be too much acetylcholine or you are deficient in magnesium. Likely both. But you should definitely be using L-Tyrosine at least twice per day (500 mg). And increase your dose of L-Tryptophan to 500 mg.
There are plenty of ways to boost Nerve Growth Factor and BDNF which will help keep synapses healthy. Take a look at this list for some ideas: https://nootropicsexpert.com/13-nootropics-to-boost-bdnf/. Another thing to consider is Lion’s Mane Mushroom.
Hello David,
so sorry to bother you again:) Honestly …
I had a MAJOR deadline last month. At first – after the DL – it felt like I could just start another project. In fact; I did. With a lot of enthusiasm. Nothing changed. But I ran out of the add stack. At lost some of it … I quit the Mindlab. Although I started again just now; I have one unit left. I kept the Alcar. And sulbutiamine. But I’m out of aniracetam. And I don’t have cash at the moment to restock on Mindlab (the C.D.P. works right away I think? Which is kind of the reason I’m taking it… Because the synergy only bears fruit after two weeks; according to their site) the unit is empty:) or Aniracetam. Almost out of Sulbutiamine.
I do have my meds; which is why I asked about the upregulation. Because it feels like they just stopped working. No matter how much … so I figured; downregulation. but three weeks ago things were fine. Just fine …
A MAJOR reason could be decompression. Because I worked on that project 24/7 for 9 months. But I took a small break and my hands were itching to start with something new. And then all of a sudden. BANG. This more or less correlated with me running out/quitting everything for a while. But I would have expected my meds to work on their own … I have this bizarre feeling that I’m missing the sulbutiamine, aniracetam, C.D.P., and Vinpocetine … I can’t tell you why. (I still do the B complex and NALT!!)
Although I do think the decompression has something to do with it as well. Diet and sleep are just fine. Excercise not. But it wasn’t during those nine months too… I’m going jogging tomorrow. No joke – I’m not looking forward to it – but I’m going.
Also; I wasn’t planning on combining Huperzine and Seroquel. I just wondered about whether taking Seroquel would upregulate if taken … (without any nootropics).
I wonder what your take on this situation is. It’s probably a little of collum a and a little of collum …
I also wondered what your thoughts were on the following piece out of an article on medium:
If my instincts are right it could save me a lot of money:)
Although I expect it’s not just the nootropics…
Most Kind Regards,
Richard
Richard, I read the section of the Medium post you pasted here then deleted it as it’s not appropriate for my site. I welcome anyone making comments but prefer they are kept concise. And the comment is their personal opinion.
I do agree that often it is best for the beginner to build their own stack based on their individual needs. Because it is the only way to learn what will work for your specific situation. And I also agree that “proprietary formulas” should be avoided. But once you know what works you can save hundreds per month by finding something similar in a pre-formulated nootropic stack.
In your case I suggest doing what works for you and what you can afford. If you “feel” that certain nootropics are missing then it’s very likely your body and brain telling you what it needs. So pay attention to what it’s saying.
I do not know what you mean by “decompression” as I’ve never come across that term in all my years of research and writing about nootropics. Please explain (short definition please).
Hey Richard,
I’m sorry for the medium piece … Completely understand. I’m not a native speaker – I had no clue decompression wasn’t an English word.
A bike racer – like Lance – unlike soccer players have to live for their sport 24/7. Train, eat right, rest. Some bike riders finish a major objective – right away they think about their next goal (Froome … I’m guessing you’re so not into cycling:).
Others live like monks for 9 months. Accomplish amazing things – the whole country in awe – after he parties a bit too hard, crashes his Ferarri and tests positive for cocaine. That’s an extreme – real-life case. No doping accusations in his whole career. But a couple of these incidents. That’s an extreme example but that’s what I meant.
I think decompression has to do wit diving, no?:)
The typical example is; they win the tour – enjoy the victory too much. Lots of ceremonies – they start training too late. Get to fat (weight is crucial in three weeks cycling tours) and completely $*ù%-up their next season. Decompression!
I know what’s wrong. I’m relieved it’s not my dopamine receptors that have downregulated … But it’s a disaster. I just figured it out … and I don’t know what to do. First, have a good nights rest; figure out what to do tomorrow.
I’m sorry for the posts the last couple of weeks …
Keep it up!
richard.
Richard, you are correct in that I only recognize the use of the word “decompression” from my scuba diving days.
But the scenarios you describe can be minimized by consistent, daily use of nootropic supplements at the right dosages. It takes dedication and commitment to a planned supplement regimen. So even if you go hell-bent for leather, the crash will be softer and gentler.
Huperzine A – is a minor nmda antagonist; not for upregulation.
I have also seen som debate whether or not one could take something like seroquel to upregulate. Supposedly theoretically this would make you feel awfull – don’t do it!! (is what I’ve read)
At one point in time they gave e a box of seroquel for Anxiety. It didn’t make me feel awful. Besides the first day I didn’t feel anything really. The reason I stopped it was because I didn’t want to take a medication constantly for something that isn’t a day to day problem. I’m not saying I will do this:) I’m just curious as to whether this would work or not and in what degree …
Thanks and sorry
Richard, Huperzine-A seems to be a NMDA receptor antagonist which keeps glutamate in check and from damaging brain cells.
Seroquel is a dopamine, serotonin, and adrenergic antagonist, a potent antihistamine and has some anticholinergic properties.
But Huperzine-A is primarily an acetylcholinesterase (AChE) inhibitor. Which is how I see it being contraindicated with Seroquel. Nothing good could come from combining the two.
Dear David,
my adderall-like meds are no longer producing the wanted effect. Taking a higher dose is a dead-end I won’t be pursuing. I’m going to take a break which seems like the only way to deal with. I’ve read that returning to baseline takes 3 to 6 months. In my case, it’ll be a month. Afterward, I’m planning on using it 2/3 days a week. And if I’m writing I’ll try to work with non-stimulants. I have used the whole add-stack and it worked very well. But at the moment I can’t afford it anymore.
My question; Is there anything I can do to return to the dopamine baseline faster? Upregulating the receptors I guess? My diet is pretty good; I could exercise more and I’ll be going on vacation so that means plenty of sun (and exercise). So apart from that … (I’ll be sleeping 8 hours as well;)
This is a list of what I have found but I’m wondering whether they are worth my money …
Pregnenolone (Diet ok)
Resveratrol (Diet ok)
DHA (Daily)
Carvacrol (Diet ok – Oregano oil?)
Folate (Daily)
monounsturated fat (Diet ok)
Butyrate
Uridine (Interests me!!)
Curcumin (Almost Daily)
Ginko B – WORTH it? (seems like a long shot)
Alcar (Daily)
L tyrosine (Nalt) (I take this daily)
Mucuna (Take Tyrosine and DLPA adding mucuna might be over the top?)
Forskolin
Huperzine A
Inositol
Sulbutamine
citocoline (choline)
What’s your take on this? Is there anything I could supplement with that would make a difference? Diet ok, doesn’t mean I don’t want to supplement. But the conclusion often sounds like; for all we know, it might well be that maybe, who really knows … rats. If you could shed a little light on this that would be great!
Also; is an nmda antagonist going to help? Or it this only the case to keep tolerance at bay during the time you’re taking stims? I’ll continue with Magnesium but I also have what’s supposed to be the best of these NMDA antagonists; should I continue … or no point really?
And then a last one but I don’t know whether it’s worth it (This can be addictive; I know but that won’t be a problem) …
Tianetptine Sulphate …
Is there Anything you can advise; Like the top 3, 5 or 10 ? 🙂
I take tyrosine 3 times a day, some glutamine with it, B complex, vit C , and a number of specific minerals all aimed to boost dopamine levels if you have a deficiency … (In fact, I’m not taking these for catecholamine, but they overlap for the biggest part)
Sorry for the long question! It would make a great article I think. Unless there’s nothing to tell of course; how to … : Time:)
Thanks a million,
richard
Richard, Adderall should work fine if it is used with the stack described in this post. Because that is what I designed the stack for and have been using successfully for the last 12 years.
The very minimum that the ADHD/ADD brain needs (at the appropriated dosages and timing) is L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, Citicoline, DHA and a good B-Complex.
I’d stay away from Tianeptine Sulphate simply because I consider it a Smart Drug that is a controlled substance in many countries. And not necessary when we have natural nootropics available to do the job.
Best thing I know of to repair neurons and create new dendrites, axons and synapses is Ashwagandha.
Hi David,
JP here needing advice again for my son.
He’s on
Aniracetam 2x 750
Citicholine 200 1x morning
Sulbutiamine 1x morning
PS 2x per day
L-carnosine 1x
PQQ 1x
Lithium orotate 1x
Vit C,
B complex + magnesium
Omega3 + Gla + PC
Anxiety is under control but we have a bit of a struggle with his attitude. Like “I don’t care” lack of participation…
We also have ADD like symptoms very difficult to focus…
From what I notice trying piracetam before aniracetam seams piracetam had more effect than aniracetam.
Do you have any advice.
Best regards
Jean-Philippe
JP, If you’ve already had more luck with Piracetam then I suggest switching back to it. But increase your dosage of Citicoline so that you’re taking it each time you dose Piracetam.
For ADHD symptoms follow some of the suggestions in this post including raising dopamine with L-Tyrosine. And a high quality multivitamin.
Hi David,
Just for feedback
L-tyrosine made a huge difference on the mood for our son. I’ll keep that one for sure. Helps him in school also it put him back on the right track.
I yould like to know what you suggest for hyper activity. It’s not my oldest son but my second son who’s more on the high speed track…
Sugar are a problem for him so he’s on a low carb diet + enzymes and we manage his high energy that way but some time still he gets on the high gear and he’s unable to manage his emotions and he gets a bit impulsive…
I think you wrote a bit about it for moa-b m’I right ?
Any advice
Thanks
JP, hyperactivity seems to be a problem with the balance of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin. See the “Taming Hyperactivity” section of this post here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-adhd-add/#taming-hyperactivity. I suggest experimenting with some of the nootropics described in that section.
Hi David,
I see that you recommend ALCAR or CDP-choline for boosting Ach. Can I use Phosphatidylserine instead?
And, for repair, you have suggested Lion’s Mane. Can I use PS again or PQQ, instead? Any other alternatives?
Archie, ALCAR is involved in the synthesis of acetylcholine and CDP-Choline directly increases this neurotransmitter. Please read the reviews of each and understand their mechanism of action of how each one works in the brain. So you have a better understanding on how each works to increase acetylcholine. Phosphatidylserine (PS) also provides choline as needed to produce ACh. Each works very differently not only in how they work, but in how they work with your unique system.
So I cannot directly answer your question for ACh. One or two of them will work better for you. But the only way to find out is to try each one.
For repair, Lion’s Mane helps boost Nerve Growth Factor for neurogenesis. PS and PQQ do not increase NGF. They can be used for brain repair but each again has a very different mechanism of action.
Thanks for the Reply, David!
I think I was confused because PS and PQQ articles also mention NGF. Are there any alternatives to Lion’s Mane for boosting NGF?
Much appreciated!
Archie, this post has most of the other nootropics that promote NGF and/or BDNF: https://nootropicsexpert.com/13-nootropics-to-boost-bdnf/
I thought of my response to you earlier today. And what I should have included was all of the nootropics reviewed here help repair the brain one way or another.
Great. Thank you!
Hi David, i’ve been abusing Adderall for a week now and want to stop without crashing. I just started taking l-tyrosine 500mg in the morning on an empty stomach, Mucuna L Dopa 20 in the morning after I take adderall and Magnesium Chelate to alleviate the body aches. How do I go about stopping adderall without the crash? I don’t need to stop cold turkey since I still have some pills left.
CG, you’re not going to be able stop Adderall without some kind of side effect. My advice for using L-Tyrosine applies to those using Adderall or Ritalin in ordinary therapeutic dosages for ADD or ADHD. And not recreational use. The idea is to replace dopamine or provide non-existent dopamine so the stimulants have something to work with. And making sure enough dopamine and acetylcholine is available for the brain to use once the Adderall wears off.
In your case follow the dosage recommendations in this post and carefully wean yourself off.
Dear David, Thank you so much for helping and advising so many people. That is so great of you..!
I am very impressed what you are able to achieve with your ADD.
Here comes my story…
Its quite the story..and very personal too but I am open and would like you tot see the whole picture.
I grew up in a very unstable unsafe home, father being alcoholic and abusive and mother being borderline and needed me to be there for her. Lot of trauma’s along the way to adulthood cause I am “programmed” to take care of somebody other then myself.
During my marriage of 16 years with a person who was very introverted and often depressed I also grew more and more depressed. It was like the immediate dangers were no longer there but I was still in survival mode. I have been under stress and really life threatening periods in my life (especially between 16 and 18).
What became very apparent when I started to work as an activity coordinator and a coach for psychiatric patients was that It was hard for me to focus (when in office with lot of co workers (10-30) and also did not know who to prioritize. And than on top of that I was giving myself messages I wasn’t good enough. And of course I started to procrastinate and this is something I have been doing ever since, this pattern. This makes me feel very depressed and stuck.. I do have a successful company (as a tribute artist) but don’t look at my paperwork or how I am packing my bags to go to a show.
Since 3 1/2 years I left my ex husband and than I moved from one temporary place to the other, and in the mean time my mom was diagnosed with cancer, I stood by her side night and day. She passed 5 months ago.
Finally I have time for me ..but since december I am diagnosed (I thought I might have it..) as being ADHD combined with ADD. Wow everything falls in place indeed… and I am VERY proud how I was able to have done the thing I was able to do.. now I need to unlearn not to be so hard on myself…my days are like ..really getting nothin done..and I have so much potential.
My performances are brilliant if I say so myself but I perform once a week so the other weeks I am just procrastinating almost everything and I feel a lot of tension…I don’t know how to prioritize…
I have gone to a big (yukkk…) mental health organization cause the one that diagnosed me only wanted to give my training and coaching to deal with the ADHD/ ADD if I took Dex but I did not want that, I feel like a zombie and could not ride my car and needed to go to mom and my work.
Anyhow the organization now after a few talks gave me two other labels ” Borderline and dependent personality.
I myself and my ex husband and my coach (who I now have since december and payed out of my own pocket but now get a budget from the city government since 2 months..! yes..! but this only lasts a half year and only 2 hours per week)
Well we all don’t see that I have these disorders. Its very very far fetched..and not true.. does not really make me happy..also but okay it does make another interesting chapter in one the books I want to write..:)
I am going to all I can to get that label not in my medical record..I really just want to heal the trauma’s and learn how to live with my ADHD and ADD.
And yes I also bought some nootropics and most I just took a few weeks (and forget them also often…:(and I still have bottles left of:
Ashwaganda 500 mg (healthy vitamins)
Rhodiola Orpin (Natures Garden) 250 gram
and Rhodiola 400 mg (swanson)
Mucuna Pruriens 400 mg (swanson)
I just bought DMAE powder (and found you through googling this)
And N – Acetyl L- Tyrosine both from Bulkpowders.
I see your stack and its quite a stack..and I already forgot the once I already have and also not sure how do you know what works..if you start with different things (this was also the problem I had with the things I bought..
I do experience mediation/ exercise and eating healthy (i do drink coffee, 2 in the morning and eat cheese and chocolate few times a week) vegetables, fruit, drink loads of camomile tea also is helpful.
But generally I feel tensed (shoulders like rocks, and chaotic and foggy).
What would you suggest as a starting stack and what to do with the nootropics I already have?
THANK YOU so much..!
Claudia, the very least you can do for controlling ADD symptoms is taking care of dopamine, acetylcholine and brain cell signaling. And you do that with N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine 500 mg 3-times per day, 500 – 800 mg Acetyl L-Carnitine (ALCAR) 3-times per day, and 300 mg Alpha GPC 3-times per day.
And if you plan on using DMAE you need to use Alpha GPC anyway. For the other things you already have please follow dosage recommendation that you’ll find under each individual review here on Nootropics Expert.
This article was highly interesting. I was diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD) and was prescribed Ritalin (Methylphenidate) in 7th grade and I still suffer from it (I’m 24). In the meantime, I’ve got my life in order and dose 20-30mg of Ritalin in stressful times, 10mg in less stressful times.
I recently took 30 mg daily, and it did affect my mood negatively.
In addition to that, I get enough Omega 3 (I eat lots of nuts), have a good diet / exercise program. I will start to supplement with a Vitamin B Complex. I take Ginko Bilboa and L-Theanine (with Caffeine) almost daily. I also own Creatin, Zinc and Magnesium (for better sleep).
What would you suggest for a less pricey stack in addition to my 10 mg Ritalin (Methylphenidate), that I can take daily? I’m worried about building up tolerances to the several supstances and therefore making my problems worse.
Daniel, don’t worry about tolerance as long as you are following recommended dosages. The Adult ADD brain is starved of dopamine and acetylcholine. At the very least you should be using L-Tyrosine or NALT along with ALCAR and possibly Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline. Using the dosages and timing as described in this post.
Thank you for your answer!
So, you would recommend to take NALT and ALCAR on a daily basis (Monday-Sunday) in addition to Ritalin (Methylphenidate). Did I understand that right?
The reason I asked is because I read informations on quickly developing tolerances for NALT. And I heard of cycling some nootropics.
Would it still be possible to take Caffeine+L-Theanine or Ginko Bilboa quite regularly?
Daniel, if you are ADD or ADHD and using Ritalin your brain needs dopamine and acetylcholine. I dose it 3-times per day; morning, noon and 4 pm. The last dose prevents the stimulant crash.
I think most people that worry about ‘tolerance’ are looking for effects that are not related to what we’re trying to achieve. And that’s simply a normal, working, functioning brain.
The Caffeine + L-Theanine combo is usually taken as needed. And Ginkgo is used daily long-term following dosage recommendations.
Hi David! I have been watching a lot of your videos over the last several days. I find them fascinating, as a new self-learner of nootropics. I’m researching nootropics that would be best for my 17 1/2-year-old senior in high school who has been having a difficult time concentrating in high school. He said that he “spaces off” and is often very tired. He has asked to be put on something like Adderall to help him focus. But, I don’t want to go that route. He has recently been caught vaping Juul heavily. We are giving him a nicotine test weekly to make sure he stays off of it. He feels like he needs it and didn’t want to quit…Which I am sure plays into his tiredness and moodiness. He also drinks a few Bang (300mg caffeine) drinks a few times a week before he works out which I think is way too much caffeine for pre-workout.
Anyway, I am overwhelmed with all of the Nootropic choices. Coincidentally, my 19-year-old son (a new freshman in college) just ordered Dr. Emil Nutrition Lion’s Mane 2100mg (decent brand??) yesterday. I couldn’t believe that somehow we both started looking into nootropics the same week. Anyway, he is also having a hard time concentrating in his 300+ student classroom. He was also caught vaping and is trying hard to quit (thank God) because of all of the health scare stories in the news lately. He is down to one or two times a day for social anxiety.
Anyway, I just want to go the safest route for their growing brains. Thanks for helping, David!
Barbara, if your son finds relief from vaping it likely means his brain is low on dopamine. This is a perfectly natural reaction because his body is instinctively telling him what it needs.
Nicotine is also a nootropic and provides benefits to the brain. (https://nootropicsexpert.com/nicotine/) The human brain has two types of acetylcholine receptors; muscarinic and nicotinic. Nicotinic receptors respond to nicotine.
Brains that are low in dopamine and have a problem with dopamine and acetylcholine signaling are usually diagnosed as ADD or ADHD. This post explains what ADD is including symptoms and provides a detailed nootropic stack on how to deal with it.
Thank you, David… I just watched your informative nicotine video. Hopefully, I will be able to find something to help them. As a newbie, is all so overwhelming with all of the possible options. I think that with the current status of flavored vaping products about to be taken off of shelves… and the health risks that many people are starting to experience with e-cigs… there will be a lot more people looking for other options like nootropics. (Or I guess I should say, “other nootropics!”)
Barbara, we’ll see what happens. But if you look closely at the reports about lung problems with vaping and associated deaths. Every single one that I’ve seen involved vaping THC and not other flavors. The thing is we have a big problem with an unregulated vaping market and unscrupulous vendors selling juice with toxic ingredients that should never be in vape juice.
Hi have a good experiences with a low carb diet, I have ADD and I was take Concerta for a long time. Personaly my mood is much better when I golpe a low carb diet. Or just One simple day without food. You can read a bit info here https://www.additudemag.com/ketogenic-keto-diet-adhd-symptoms/
Miguel, one of my favorite sites for info on ADHD and ADD. Fewer refined carbs is better for everyone including those of us with ADD. But critical nutrients are often missing from a strict Ketogenic diet. And why we need to include a quality Multi like this one: https://nootropicsexpert.com/performance-lab-whole-food-multi-review/. And 1,000 mg of DHA per day is critical for the ADD brain.
Hi David,
First of all congratulations on your brilliant effort with Nootropics Expert. I spend the majority of my days researching and trying to learn more about the human mind and body. I’ve found your site and style of writing among the best out there. Keep up the great work!
I was having minor success managing my ADD (diagnosed 30 years ago @ age 8 and medicated with Dexamphetamine since then, up until 1 year ago when I decided to try natural and nootropic products for a while instead) with an extract blend of Ashwagandha, Rhodiola, Ginseng, and Eleuthero. My naturopath has also suggested adding Bacopa and Ginkgo to my stack, which I am yet to do, because I still have major focus and impulsiveness issues.
I recently found a very reliable high grade source of Sam-E (that also includes the essential B vitamins) and it’s honestly working wonders in regards to my overall sense of wellbeing and freedom from doom feeling you mentioned above. I remember the first dose of 400mg literally put a giddy smile on my face.
I’m worried now though as I’m under the impression Ashwagandha, Rhodiola and Bacopa are all MAO inhibitors of some sort. Do you know if this is correct and something I should be worried about while taking Sam-E or Dexamphetamine (if I decide to go back on)? According to Wiki, regarding conflicting MAOI interactions and things to avoid – “Substances that increase serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine activity, as too much of any of these neurochemicals can result in severe acute consequences, including serotonin syndrome, hypertensive crisis, and psychosis, respectively.”
I really appreciate your time, cheers!
Leon.
Leon, Dexamphetamine is a full agonist of TAAR1 which in turn inhibits the function of the dopamine transporter, norepinephrine transporter, and serotonin transporter.
Which means it would be contraindicated with MAOI both A and B. The only nootropic you mentioned that I’m certain is a MAOI is Rhodiola. There is talk of Ashwagandha and Bacopa exhibiting MAOI activity but I cannot find any proof of it.
The thing is I can’t imagine you using Dexamphetamine for 30 years without developing some kind of tolerance. And as you get older the neurotransmitters in your brain begin to decline. While monoamine oxidase increases. Which means that chances are you are low in at least dopamine and acetylcholine. And possibly serotonin.
Of course, I have no proof of this and am basing my ‘opinion’ on all the research I’ve done and personal experience. So if you are trying to replace Dexamphetamine with natural nootropics I suggest directly boosting dopamine and acetylcholine using the suggestions in this post.
Adaptogens may help but L-Tyrosine which is a precursor to dopamine seems a better option to me.
Hi David,
Your site has been EXTREMELY helpful, thank you! My 16-year old was diagnosed (unofficially) as ADD this past February. Focalin XR was prescribed (10 mg/day) and it really helped, although he felt the dosage was losing effectiveness by year end. Now that it’s summer he wanted to take a break so we are experimenting with nootropics. My question is, are these supplements natural or synthetic? I worry about interfering with the massive brain remodeling going on in the developing teenage brain. He is taking NALT 350 mg a day and it helps some but any thoughts on complementing with 5 htp or others? He is non hyperactive, inattentive type. Thank you so much for what you do! I am also a Virgo and have been analyzing this thing to death for the last 6 months lol.
Melanie, the ADHD nootropic stack described in this post is all natural with the exception of Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine which are not necessary to make this stack work.
It’s designed to work with or without prescription stimulants like Focalin XR. If dosed correctly including the right timing during the day, tolerance to Focalin should not be an issue.
And this stack should be safe for kids but at the lowest recommended dosages. Check with a doctor however if you can find an integrative psychiatrist who understands this stuff.
Hello David,
I’ve been using the stack with mixed (generally good!) results. I’m still looking for the right proportions. I just wondered … adding a b-complex on top of multi whole food and mind lap pro? I noticed you don’t seem to do so.
It just seems like a whole lot of B-vitamins.
Did I read it correct; You get everything you need from multi whole food?
But at the bottom you say add a B-complex?
I’m a little confused… a good b complex isn’t cheap. Neither is multi whole food. I just wan’t to make sure I don’t spend money if it’s not needed:)
Thank u so much for all the advice.
Richard, I think most people would find that the B-Vitamins in the Whole-Food Multi are adequate. But I find I need the extra B-Vitamins so use a separate B-Complex as well. The B-Complex supplement by Life Extension is the best one out there in my opinion and it’s only about $9 right now on Amazon: https://amzn.to/2XX65Eq
The combo of this B-Complex with the Multi is at the upper limit of dosage but still safe. But only you know if you think you need the extra B-Vitamins.
Hii david i m 22 yrs old and i m a student i have problem in attention or focusing in my studies ,i am unable to concentrate more than 30minutes , please suggest best nootropic stack for daily use.
And my Next question can i use mind lab pro daily(without cycling)?
Thanks in advance
Prakash, you do not need to cycle Mind Lab Pro. I don’t and have been using it everyday for nearly 4 years.
For focus, the nootropic stack described in this post will help. It’s designed to help those with ADD/ADHD which deals with focus problems daily.
Hi David,
Thank you for all this incredibly helpful information. I’m 41, female, and recently diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, and depression (on top of hypothyroidism). Prior to these diagnoses, I tried going the “natural” route by stacking bacopa, rhodiola, ashwagandha, L-theanine, lion’s mane, etc., in an effort to improve my moods and focus. Nothing seemed to help. At all. So I finally caved and now I’m trying the Rx route (currently Wellbutrin + Ritalin), as well as slew of vitamin and mineral supplements, and I’m not even sure any of it is helping (other than the Armour Thyroid).
I recently read about NALC and, despite being already overwhelmed with supplements, I just had to try it, so I went ahead and ordered some. Then I found this page while looking for more information about it, and now I’m interested in trying your stack – but I’m having major sticker shock!
Could you please recommend a “lite” version of your ADHD stack, including the vitamins and minerals that should be taken with it? I.e. if your supplements budget was slashed and you were forced to scale down to the essentials, what would you choose? I’m desperate to be feeling and functioning better, but I don’t have several hundred dollars a month to spare on more supplements. So I’m hoping I can start with the essentials and then tweak from there. Thanks 🙂
Lynn, the nootropics that must be included in this stack to support ADHD and Ritalin use are; NALT, ALCAR, DHA, B-Complex and a choline source like Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline.
But that’s not going to completely address your anxiety and depression. That’s what Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine are for. But in a pinch start with the others and you should do fine. Add a high quality Multivitamin too if you can.
Thank you for your suggestions. I am currently deep in a rabbit hole on your site, reading posts about the best nootropics of 2020, best ones for motivation, depression, anxiety, energy, etc… and now I want to try everything.
I’ve already purchased NALT, ALCAR, DHA, B-Complex, and Alpha GPC, which I’m just now starting to experiment with, as well as a whole-food multivitamin. Today I also ordered Pine Bark Extract and Inositol (40:1 myo:d-chiro).
I’ll feel like I’ve got a decent stack going until I read sentences like, “Phosphatidylserine (PS) is arguably one of the most effective and important nootropics we have available today,” and, “Lithium Orotate has become one of the best additions I’ve made to my nootropic stack in years.” And before I know it, I’ve got 50 tabs open trying to research all these things, convinced I’ll be doing myself a great disservice if I don’t take everything that could possibly benefit my brain – while at the same time worrying about possible interactions – until I get overwhelmed and shut down. Which is partly why it took me so long to purchase the nootropics you suggested to me.
I am currently taking 3 grains of Nature-Throid and 150mg Wellbutrin daily. I’ve also been trying Concerta and Vyvanse to see which works better, but both have been inconsistent, in both efficacy and side effects. I worry about possible long-term effects of Wellbutrin and stimulant meds, so I don’t plan on taking them forever.
I’m more interested in the idea of supplements that not only help my brain function optimally in the short term, but also improve its long-term health. I dream of being able to feel good AND get shit done – at the same time, even! Of getting unstuck, living up to my potential, and living life to the fullest.
As someone who also deals with hypothyroidism, ADHD (and all the cognitive impairments that go along with it), and anxiety/depression (which I believe are exacerbated by the ADHD), I’m curious about your full nootropic routine. Is it just the stack you wrote about in this post, plus Lithium Orotate?
What do you think about me adding Inositol to the mix?
What do you think about me starting this nootropics stack while still on Wellbutrin?
Are my fears of lab-created nootropics like Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine unfounded? I resisted Rx meds for years because I tend to shy away from substances not found in nature.
And what are your thoughts on occasionally adding psilocybin mushrooms to the mix, via microdosing and/or full-on trips?
I know this is a lot, so thank you in advance for helping me sort this out!
Lynn, here’s a page on what I take which is not entirely accurate because I need to update it. But close enough: https://nootropicsexpert.com/what-i-take/
The nootropic stack described above is tailored to be used with or without stimulant meds including Wellbutrin. Dosages are included but may need to be adjusted a tailored to what your system needs.
If you’ve been using Wellbutrin daily I do not understand your reasoning about other stimulant meds. If you need one all you need to do is support it with this stack and you’ll be fine. And no, you do not need to use Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine to make it work. I use those for depression (which I have not experienced in 13 years). But this stack was designed to also include elements to protect and repair your brain. No matter what it was attacked by. Including stimulants.
I can’t provide any advice on micro-dosing for any number of reasons. Including the other meds you are using. If you are contemplating a “full trip” I highly recommend you quit everything except your thyroid med for two weeks before you do it. Or you could have some very serious problems.
It may save you a lot of time and overwhelm if you just booked a consultation with me.
Dear David,
thank you for the article. I have been reading it over and over and experimented with almost every nootropic here, except for the coconut oil.
But I’m having a hard time figuring out what to take when. I can most def feel the overall difference but not so much adding or leaving this or that substance. I try to listen to my body but sometimes it whispers instead of speaking out loud and … well, I’m just not sure.
Would it look something like this?
The ADD/ADHD stack I use includes:
Mind Lab Pro (breakfast – suggested 2 caps)
Performance Lab® Energy – twice per day (Breakfast & noon – suggested 2 caps /4 in total)
ALCAR – 800 mg 1-time per day (4 pm)
NALT – 800 mg 3-times per day (Breakfast, noon & 4 pm.)
Sulbutiamine – 400 mg twice per day (Breakfast & noon)
Aniracetam – 800 mg twice per day (Breakfast & noon)
Vinpocetine – 10 mg 3-times per day (Breakfast, noon & 4 pm.)
DHA (Omega-3) – 1,000 mg per day (between breakfast and lunch)
1 tablespoon Coconut Oil – 3-times per day
Performance Lab® Whole-Food Multi – twice per day (Breakfast & noon suggested 2 caps /4 total)
I haven’t yet tried the lab energy and used the separate ingredients. But all in all, I think it’s good value and def less hassle)
But it’s still quite expensive, so I guess I’m looking for someone to tell me, yeah, thats how – I do it. I know, listen to your body. But I’d still like to know:)
I have a strange feeling about the coconut oil. Mixed info … Is there another source of fat I could use? Nigella Sativa … I usually do eat but asylum mentioned sometimes it doesn’t all fall together and you need a fat source in there.
If you could point me in the right direction, that would be a major help. That way I can put up a note on fridge. Consider this the foundation and take it from there. I write for a living. I have been blessed with some kind of talent but I could never get it out until I used ritalin (and kratom even. A long time ago even valium helped me to concentrate and sit still. Although it’ll have dampend my creativity.)
I do honestly feel trapped. It feels like it’s in there … I know it is. But I just can’t get it out without the use of any substance. I’m seeing a doctor because I wanted to do this in a structured way that’s sustainable. But it’s taking ages … he’s not keen on the idea of ADHD meds. Which I can understand. His word’s ‘ppl. attribute them with magic power’ (something like that). But If I use it, something that makes sense and sells comes out. When someone else does, who has the same ambitions but the initial spark isn’t there, not much really happens.
Dunno if it makes sense. It’s maybe a bit simplified but thats really what it feels like – and has been proven over and again. I’m just able to structure my day, my work, set my goals, ect. I don’t want to over do it. Just a sate of constructive, productive, healthy, stability.
Or is that to much to ask:)?
Kind regards,
Richard
Richard, you are definitely on the right track. The stack described in this post is used by thousands to support ADD or ADHD including when using stimulants. I’ve been using this stack for years and it works.
To rest your mind about Coconut oil: https://nootropicsexpert.com/coconut-mct-oil/
The alternative with different benefits is extra virgin olive oil.
Thanks for the affirmation (is that the right word?)
That means two jars of Lab Energy each month – that’s brutal cash-wise. Maybe I could do one capsule and a separate dose of alcar so that so I can do one month per jar. Or would the make a huge difference? 🙂
Richard, the big benefit of Performance Lab Energy is CoQ10 and PQQ which provides mitochondrial support. If you are using it primarily for the ALCAR content then reduce your PL Energy use and increase ALCAR. For example, take a capsule of PL Energy morning and one at noon. And take ALCAR morning, noon and later in the afternoon.
Hi David,
I’m dealing with two problems:
Confused diagnostics ADHD/ADD/Asperger
And
The high price of nootropics in my country.
I’m already taking b complex and magnesium.
How would you adapt your stack if you have to deal with cost issues?
Ana
Ana, ADD/ADHD is usually a dopamine and brain signalling issue. At the very least you should be boosting dopamine with L-Tyrosine and increasing brain signalling with Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline with ALCAR.
There is a ratio between alpha gpc and alcar?
Ana, there is no ‘ratio’ between these two. It’s whatever dosage works for you based within the recommended dosage of each.
Hi David,
First of all, thank you for a wonderful website with so much information on nootropics. I would especially thank you for this post of nootropics for ADHD and would rate this to be the best on the internet. I have repeatedly read the content on the post and have revisited many times to refer.
I have been recently diagnosed with ADHD inattentive type (ADD) and was prescribed with Vyvanse 30 mg. Initially the changes were profound and then quickly within a week got used to 30 mg and was bumped up to 50 mg, Briefly I was put on 70, but I felt as if the meds were not working at all, following this my Doc advised the dosage was high and I am now back on 50mg and feels like a stable dosage.
However, I have been keen on experimenting with nootropics for last two months, and I must admit the journey has been a kind of roller coaster ride. All my life I had suffered from the shortcomings of ADD and then when I knew there is a possible cure and supplements that can improve my life, I couldn’t hold back.
However, I quickly realised no one pill could help me. Everyone is different and especially with ADD/ADHD things get a bit more complicated. I have tried Ashwagandha, mindlab pro, ALCAR, multivit and Omega 3 as a stack with Vyvanse. I usually take the multivit and omega 3 in the night.
I had some heavy allergic reactions in the first week, and with trial and error, I found its ashwagandha which set me into an Allergic reaction and then I had to stop it. ALCAR seems to support the Vyvanse, but I can’t see a big difference I take two caps one in morning and afternoon 450 mg each. I also had sleep issues, most days suffered from poor quality of sleep, again by elimination I figured out that coffee with Vyvanse was contributing to this and have stopped coffee after 11 am, and the sleep pattern has significantly improved.
However, with mindlab pro surprisingly, I felt too calm and relaxed, and the motivation and energy levels dropped significantly to the extent that I felt the Vyvanse did not have any effect. But then it helped me overcome the allergic reactions I had from Ashwagandha. It could be the effect of Bacopa Monnieri.
I found it strange why Mind lab pro will make me sluggish and almost diminish the effects of Vyvanse. So maybe I have to experiment and built my stack, I also feel I may be randomly approaching the dosage and the nootropics and putting the delicate balance out of control. Sometimes the side effects just too much to handle and put the entire day’s productivity off.
Is there a more structured approach you can to advise to this process, please?
Currently, I am thinking on starting the below stack and then look at adding Aniracetam to it please advice how I should approach the process from dosage and adding of supplements in a more structured way so that I can reach the best stack
1. Vyvanse -50 mg
2. ALCAR – 900 mg (morning and afternoon)
3. NALT – 700 mg (morning and afternoon)
4. Choline – 650 mg (morning and afternoon)
5. Multi Vit
6. Omega 3
Regards
Mustaq
Mustaq, your suggested stack at the end of your comment should work well to support the use of Vyvanse. But you are correct that “balance” is key and is different for each of us. The two most critical neurotransmitters during the day for you are dopamine and acetylcholine which you are supporting. Keep experimenting until you find the ideal stack for you. You are on the right track so far.
Hi, David.
This is a fascinating article, but I admit I’m a bit overwhelmed by the amount of info. I’m new to nootropics but interested in trying them out for what I suspect is inattentive/combo adhd. Mainly trying to improve executive function and brain fog. I have a phobia of whitecoat doctors, so obviously I’m trying to avoid prescription drugs.
As such, right now I’m on St. John’s Wort for chronic depression, which has helped tremendously (even with anxiety somewhat), but it’s also rumored to interact with… everything. Mostly to make other meds less effective, but anything else that also messes with serotonin can lead to serotonin syndrome. I haven’t found good research on what all it’s affecting in my brain besides that. Mostly I know it makes me not suicidal. So do you think any of the nootropics you list here might be a good first try, and safe with SJW? I don’t wanna start with a stack/multiple things at once, due to finances and medical paranoia, but.
Otherwise, I’m just on pumpkin seed oil and B-12 (I’m a vegetarian). Contemplating some omega-3s. Which, did you find that adding omegas had a noticeable effect on your add symptoms?
Thanks for helping everyone out like this. Hope you’re well.
Hawthorn, this is exactly how St John’s wort works in your brain: https://nootropicsexpert.com/st-johns-wort/
The protocol in this post on ADHD is designed to support the ADD/ADHD brain with or without the use of prescription stimulants. Very basically this nootropics suggested here boost dopamine, acetylcholine, brain cell signalling, suppress hyperactivity, improve focus and concentration, etc.
Thousands of people with ADHD follow this protocol successfully. Just follow the instructions. If you need more personal help, please book a consultation with me: https://nootropicsexpert.com/personal-consultations/
Hi again, thank you kindly for getting back/providing more intel. I’m sorry for my redundant questions! I’ll see about getting started on the regimen. 🙂
Dear David,
I’m working on something that has a deadline the 7th of june. Regardless of the deadline I would definitely like to give this protocol a go. Next to ritalin. But the 7the I’m leaving on vacation for three weeks. At that time I won’t be needing my meds, nor the protocol. Can I just start anyway, take a break, and start again when I’m getting back to work? Or would that be a waste of money? Would the effects be felt the same day/week or does it take two to three months? In with case I’m maybe better off waiting to start the protocol.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
regards!!
Tim, my experience is the success of this stack comes from consistent, daily, long-term use. Think of it this way…
The ADD or ADHD is essentially ‘brain damage’. And you need to repair that damage. Once repaired, you need to maintain it.
If I knew I had a June 7 deadline hanging over me and the success of that day depended on a highly functioning brain, I’d get started now.
Thanks for the reply!
The only thing I’m a little puzzled about is what to take when. I Don’t think that’s covered in the article. Or maybe I missed it (but I’ve read it a couple of times). My doc thinks it’s all bs. He actually advised against it. He likes to keep things simple. That is: only the ritalin. I understand his point of view. He feels with so many compounds we don’t know what we’re doing anymore. On the other hand, it’s not like he read up on it. At the moment I’m taking ashwagandha. He did a quick google search and came to the conclusion it might cause anxiety instead of decreasing it. Because of it’s effects on the thyroid. Examine.com does mention those effects. So I’m a little puzzled as what to do. Listen to your body, I know:). But going there has been quite a financial effort. And he certainly has my best interest at heart. So I’m torn between my instincts and his advise.
Tim, the protocol I outlined in this post is to naturally support the ADD and ADHD brain. Ritalin is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. But if your brain doesn’t have enough dopamine there is nothing to inhibit! And you don’t get the full benefit of Ritalin.
I suggest using L-Tyrosine or NALT for each time you dose Ritalin to provide dopamine, ALCAR to boost acetylcholine and improve brain cell signalling, DHA as the fat needed for healthy brain cells, Vinpocetine for better brain blood flow, and a quality multivitamin so your brain has the vitamin and minerals it needs for neurotransmitter synthesis, gene expression, myelin synthesis, etc.
The majority of doctors will not approve of this kind of regimen because they do not understand it. Keep in mind that for the last 100 years medical schools have been supported by the major pharmaceutical companies. Doctors are trained for a ‘one pill’ solution for every disease. But get zero training on what builds and maintains a healthy brain and body in the first place.
So to answer your question; if you use Ritalin twice per day the dose this stack morning and noon. Then use one more stack late afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash.
If you need more help please book a consultation with me and I’ll walk you through it.
Do you take anything specifically in the late afternoon to prevent the crash and irritability? I am so tired between 6-8 pm with no energy/motivation and I take a short nap to take the edge off.i take 15 mg of adderall 2x a day. I was thinking about adding B6 and L-Carnitine in the afternoon. Thanks
Around 4 PM I take 800 mg NALT, 800 mg ALCAR and I personally find another 300 mg Alpha GPC works for me. Along with a tablespoon of unrefined coconut oil. That stack keeps dopamine and acetylcholine levels up so I don’t crash.
Hello David,
Let me first say that I love what you do. You’re a level-headed fellow and I think you’re helping a lot of people. I’m currently reading the above post on ADHD. I’m 46 (soon to be 47) and well, I’ll spare you my story because it’s not pretty. Let’s just say that a psychiatrist first diagnosed with ADHD some 10 years ago. However, the diagnosis was then removed by the same practitioner and added at a later time by a neuropsychologist and then removed again by another psychiatrist. As you can see, I’ve been caught in the middle of health professional disagreements. However, I do think that I’ve had ADHD, because for someone my age, I’m clearly not where I should be in life. What I’m driving at here, is that I strongly think that ADHD has ruined my life or just short of doing so.
I notice that you’ve been on methylphenidate. My question to you would be : have you experienced any moderate to severe side-effects from it ? as in : cardiovascular related issues, like ectopic beats (aka extrasystole), FA or other type of heart arrhythmias ? I’m familiar with these topics, as I’m a term away from completing a RN course.
I’m asking, as I’m considering methylphenidate over dextro or other amphetamine salts like Adderral XR. FWIW, I did try Adderall XR once for a week’s time. While on it, I was calmer than usual, yet noticeably more obsessed over a number of things. My wife found me to be quite annoying while I was on it. Plus, by the end of the I’d become very aggressive – so aggressive that I thought I might get in trouble with the law. So, that was the deal breaker for me as far as Adderall was concerned.
From what I’ve read, Methylphenidate is somewhat safer than amphetamines. Though, Vyvanse (dextro) is interesting because the come on and off are smooth, because of the lysine based delivery.
Thank you very much David.
Marc
Marc, methylphenidate has a longer track record than any of the other stimulants. And the research shows it is relatively ‘safer’ than any of the others. I do not experience side effects from it. I did try Adderall once for 6 months and switched back because it did not agree with me.
Each of us is wired differently and our response to each of these meds may be different.
While your team of docs is trying to make up their minds you should know that I used the above stack WITHOUT Ritalin for one year. And it worked great.
Thanks Dave that’s good to hear as I’ve really been suffering. I appreciate all your help just wish I saw your site sooner. I will keep you updated. Steve.
I prey this combination is going to work for me but feel there is not enough time left. I was diagnosed with adhd and bi polar in may last year after 5 years of severe suicidal depression. I am 55 and always knew something was wrong. To top it off the day I was diagnosed my dear wife my rock in life had a mri scan for bad back and was told to immediately go to AE where they diagnosed advanced breast cancer to her spine and gave her 2y to live. At present she has now lost her ability to walk and is bed ridden at home which is not good as I’m here full time cater who cannot care care for himself. I need to get my head together very quickly as we intended to beat this cancer with natural approach but time is moving and I just get so frustrated as I am so bloody negative and cannot focus, and what really amazes me is that I have motivation which is awful considering severity of her illness. I use to be very clever and a quick learner of anything I put my mind to even though I never went to school, I self taught myself everything I know.
I am only now prescribed elvanse/vyanse 70mg (UK highest dose) but these only work for 3h max so anything that can help is a bonus as Drs will not up the dose. Really would appreciate any help you can give as I am so desperate as my world is crumbling around me. Kind regards Steve
Hi Steve, it’s not too late because with the right nootropic stack and dedication on your part things can improve relatively quickly. Fortunately, much of the trial and error has been done for you. And is reflected in this post on ADHD.
The protocol outline in this post was designed to support the use of prescription stimulants. And if dosed correctly and at the recommended timing you’ll find that you’ll get extended use of Vyvanse.
For longterm brain health I also suggest you study this post for some ideas you can use in addition to what is outlined above in this post: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-the-aging-brain/
I have ADD along with social anxiety. I take Vyvanse and b vitamins. I don’t take many other medications or supplements. I have a bubbly personality when I’m not lethargic. Anti-depressants make me feel like crap. But I have found in social settings that alcohol relaxes me (without making me sleepy), and I am much more socialable and talkative. Is there a nootropic that would give me the same feeling with out turning to alcohol and the alcohol side effects?
Kat, what you describe is typical of someone who is truly ADD. The supplements described in this post including dosages and timing of dosages should help. Sounds like your brain needs more dopamine and acetylcholine.
By the way David, My modafinil is not provigil it is generic modafinil (Modalert).
David, I use this stack at the moment every week with 2 days off on weekends.
Sulbutiamine 400mg 2x daily
ALCAR 500mg 2x daily
DHA 1000 MG 70% 1 daily
Source Of Life Men Whole food Multi 2x Daily
Life Ext B complex 2x daily
vinpocetine 10mg 3x daily
Aniracetam 750mg 2x daily
NALT 800mg 2x daily
MLB 2x daily
Coconut oil 15ml 3x daily
my first dose makes me feel alert and calm, my second dose after 4 hours from the first dose this time I feel really weird and easily get tired Idk why what I have in mind is the multi vitamins that I have already has b complex on its own here is the ingredient sample
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81osg-Wk80L._SL1500_.jpg
Is it an overdose of b complex? what might be causing it?
Or this stack is supposed to be dosed with a stimulant and I should reduce my dose for each ingredient?
If incase this stack is ok with you david I will stack a stimulant with it “modafinil” what do you think?
Robert, if you are using Aniracetam you really should add a choline supplement to this stack. Something like Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline. See if that helps and report back please.
David, I use the Mind lab pro 250 mg Citicoline (Cognizin)
everytime I dose aniracetam in this stack. If not enough I should definitely gonna buy A-GPC or CDP Choline Source or get it from eggs if in case how much choline a day should I need for this stack?
Robert, it’s unlikely that you are getting enough from just the Citicoline in MLP if you are using Aniracetam. And there is no reliable way to tell how much choline you are getting from eggs.
Aniracetam is a powerful nootropic and needs the support of an acetylcholine precursor. Depending on your individual system likely considerably more than what you’d get from MLP and/or eggs. Experiment with additional CDP-Choline or Alpha GPC and see how it works for you.
Thanks David, I’ll Let you know within the coming weeks.
Great. That answered my question about using it along with my Adderall. Another reason why I only chose a select few is because of the price. I know you can’t put a price on health, but adding that stack list up…there is no way I can afford that list every month 🙁
Shirley, if I was “stranded on a desert island” I’d choose NALT or L-Tyrosine, ALCAR, DHA, a high quality Multi or B-Complex supplement and coconut oil. That is a fairly inexpensive stack but very effective.
I find your post VERY interesting! I have inattentive ADHD, not hyper, 0 motivation, (husband calls me lazy), a bit of social anxiety, and very mild depression (anti depressants make it worse). I take 20mg of Adderall XR once a day, Omega 3 (4:1 ration), B-complex (methylation) when I remember. I really want to add try nootropics along with my Adderall: NALT, Rhodiola, Mucuna, to help with the mild depression, low libido and motivation. i’m afraid of taking too many because more than likely I will forget to take them, and can be a little overwhelming.
Any suggestions if that is the right stack and if they can be taken with Adderall?
Shirley, the nootropic stack described in this post was designed to support those using prescription stimulants including Adderall and Ritalin. But for it be most effective dosage and timing must be following exactly. Including morning, noon and late-afternoon.
If you still need more of a boost for libido just as example, you could add Mucuna Pruriens. But I would not recommend messing with the original stack until you find out how it works for you. And I think once you condition yourself to maintain the discipline of 3-doses per day, you won’t forget. 🙂
Hello David,
Can I add vinpocetine, b-complex(life ext),noopept on your add/adhd stack to prolong the focus? and I usually take 30-40mg of piperine and 1 tablespoon of virgin coconut oil every time I take the stacks is that alright?
Robert, yes you can add those to your stack. But be careful with Piperine because you don’t want to go over the maximum daily dosage.
Hi David, loving your YouTube vids and great to hear advice on Nootropics from a fellow ADHD sufferer. With your recommended stack that you say you combine with ritalin; what would you recommend in how I can get the other nootropics on your stack that aren’t an ingredient in the mind lab pro? Also, I live in the UK, do your suppliers of the nootropics you stack ship to the UK? Regards, Daniel
Daniel, I get most of the rest of my supplement through Amazon. Some are stocked by them and others from vendors who use Amazon as a storefront. In a pinch and when I need something fast, I get it from my local Vitamin Shoppe which is one of the major supplement retailers here in the USA.
Hello David, I am planning to buy Ritalin through an online blackmarket to add to my stack. I already have all the basic components but I also want to add Ritalin. I am not yet diagnosed with ADD/ADHD but I have a strong feeling that I am ADD/ADHD I fully resonate with your stories.
Alex, please be really cautious about what you are getting. Because there is no guarantee that the drug you are buying is pure. I personally found that I could control my Adult ADD symptoms with just the nootropics described in this post.
I understand, I will try the nootropic stack first and see how I feel. I’m planning to buy performance lab whole food and energy, and rely on mind lab pro for the vinpocetine supply since its not available in nootropics depot is it fine? and if I already have the whole stack what kind of food should I eat? and how often? I dont have any idea when should I take it and when and what to eat.
I can basically have all the stack listed above and also a life extension b complex added on the list.
Alex, the stack suggested in the yellow highlight box above says twice or three times per day. Morning, noon, and if a third dose of something is needed that would be around 4 PM.
Each of the nootropics has a link through to a complete review which includes dosages suggestions and whether it is fat or water soluble. I take my stack each time with a tablespoon of coconut oil instead of worrying about taking it with a meal with healthy fats.
And Mind Lab Pro has since changed their formula and no longer use Vinpocetine. So I get mine from Amazon here in the USA.
Hi David,
I’m so glad you wrote this article. I can completely relate when you say all the self help books in the world can’t help when the problem is your brain.
I’ve never been formally diagnosed but my lack of focus, inability to complete tasks, and hesitancy to make decisions tell me I have ADD. At the very least, executive function disorder. I took the Amen Clinic’s online ADD test and it said that I’m a combination of 4 types: Overfocused ADD (which I have no idea how that’s possible), Temporal Lobe ADD, Limbic ADD and Anxiety ADD. ADDitude’s online test also showed I have ADD.
I’m 48, and take 50 mcg Synthroid and 5 mcg Cytomel for Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, along with many supplements recommended/prescribed by my functional medicine doctor. I also take 5mg of Lexapro with CatecholaCalm daily for anxiety. I never realized I truly suffered from anxiety and couldn’t understand why I couldn’t be like everyone else. I freelance while I’m bootstrapping a business and the stress is unlike anything i’ve experienced. The lexapro with the CatecholaCalm helps. I totally get what you mean when you say your stack helps with the meds; mine too.
I exercise and follow an AIP diet and still struggle with my ADD symptoms. I’m having trouble finding information about what ADD med I can take with having Hashimoto’s (the autoimmune version of hypothyroid). The little bit I have found suggests stimulants further deplete the thyroid.
Experiencing what is like to have anxiety under control with lexapro has made me realize how much I allowed myself to needlessly suffer, and delayed the growth of my business. I’m ready to take an ADD med because I’m tired of suffering and not taking one is affecting my life and business. I recently started taking 3/4 tsp of Lions Mane daily and 350 mg of NALT 1-2x a day. The first day I was definitely focused. Now I’m not.
Is there an ADD med that can be taken with my thyroid meds and Lexapro? Would I be able to use nootropics alone – if so, which nootropics would you say are absolute musts? Taking so many supplements gets expensive, and I already take a lot.
Thank you for your help,
Beth
Beth, if you are truly ADD then you may benefit from using a prescription stimulant like Ritalin. I am severely hypo but have it under control with NP Thyroid. And using Ritalin is no problem.
But I did go an entire year with zero ADD symptoms by using the nootropic stack described in this post. If you decide to try it using just nootropics you must follow the dosage instructions and use ALL of the supplements described here. You may be able to get away with eliminating Aniracetam but the others are a must.
David. Thank you so much for your reply! You have no idea how encouraged I am to know that you have hypothyroidism too and have overcome ADD. I have been doing my reading and found that a general practitioner can prescribe Strattera (is the same true for Ritalin?). In your experience, would you have your GP prescribe something or should you go to psychiatrist? I’m ecstatic to try your stack minus the racitam.
Beth
Beth, please get familiar with the exact mechanism of action for each stimulant drug you are considering before seeing a doctor. Strattera for example works very differently in your brain than Ritalin. Wikipedia is generally a good place to start with this type of search.
A psychiatrist should be well-versed on each of the meds to treat ADD. A general practitioner is likely not familiar. In either case I’ve found that it takes awhile until you find a doctor you can trust and that is willing to work with you on something as complicated as ADD.
Hello David I want to add Ritalin on your nootropic stack for ADD/ADHD any merchants that you can recommend?
Kyle, I highly recommend each of the nootropics reviewed in this post if you are dealing with ADHD.
Ritalin is a controlled substance and only available by prescription from your psychiatrist.
And yes, you can dose 3 capsules of Mind Lab Pro at once. Opti Nutra suggests a maximum dose of 4 capsules per day. I’ve found for best results it’s better to take 2 capsules in the morning, and then 1 or 2 capsules again at noon.
David,
I bought all the necessary ingredients for the ADD/ADHD stack in nootropics depot but I cant buy the PF energy and whole food because Im all out of budget at this time. What alternatives do I need to fulfill the lacking ingredients for this stack? I currently have Mind Lab Pro,ALCAR
,NALT ,Sulbutiamine ,Aniracetam,DHA (Omega-3) ,1 tablespoon Coconut Oil.
Robert, you have the basics which will work fine as long as you follow dosage recommendations including timing. I would ad a good B-Complex supplement if you can. Life Extension’s BioActive Complete B-Complex is only about $10.
David, I don’t really know how to time this to be honest I would like to ask what would you strongly recommend? And for Mind Lab Pro is it ok to dose 3 capsules in one go?
Hello David I bought Berocca Performance its vitamin b complex+ Ascorbic Acid + Calcium + Magnesium + Zinc.
This is the breakdown on its Ingredients
Vitamin B1 (As thiamine monophosphoric acid ester chloride dihydrate) – 15mg
Vitamin B2(As riboflavin sodium phosphate) – 15mg
Vitamin B3(As Nicotinamide) – 50mg
Vitamin B5(As calcium pantothenate) – 23mg
Vitamin B6(As Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) – 10mg
Vitamin B12(As Cyanocobalamin) – 10mcg
Vitamin C (As Ascorbic Acid) – 500mg
VItamin H (As Biotin) – 150mcg
Folic Acid – 400mcg
Calcium(as Calcium carbonate granulated and calcium pantothenate) – 100mg
Magnesium ( as magnesium carbonate granulated and magnesium sulfate dihydrate) – 100 mg
Zinc ( as Zinc citrate trihydrate) – 10mg
This is my vitamin b complex to add for my stack I currently have Mind Lab Pro,ALCAR
,NALT ,Sulbutiamine ,Aniracetam,DHA (Omega-3) ,1 tablespoon Coconut Oil.
What do you think david?
Robert, your stack is OK but I suggest getting a better B-Complex supplement. One that contains the vitamins your body can use and not synthetic folic acid and cyanocobalamin.
Same thing with the calcium, magnesium and zinc used in this supplement which are basically ground up rock. Not the type of vitamins and minerals your body and brain recognize as food.
Thanks for the informative response David.
I will buy another one but what ingredient should I look for and avoid in a b complex vitamins? What would be the best brand?
Robert, you want Vitamin B9 (folate) and not folic acid. And Vitamin B12 (methylcobalamin) and not cyanocobalamin. I’ve been using Life Extension’s BioActive B-Complex because it is a good dosage and the right form of ingredients: https://amzn.to/2MEb1os
For more on selecting the right vitamins and minerals please see my post here > https://nootropicsexpert.com/how-to-select-the-best-multivitamin-for-brain-function/.
And tips of choosing high quality nootropic supplements here > https://nootropicsexpert.com/7-tips-for-choosing-the-highest-quality-nootropic-supplements/
Thank you Robert, Very cool and informative 🙂
David,
I already have the Life Extension B complex, The recommended dose is 2x daily with food but with the add/adhd stack how often do I take this capsule daily?
Kyle, I use one capsule with my morning stack and one capsule with my noon stack.
David, you wrote, “ Any disruption in this NE system can result in ADHD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), sleep disorders and more.”
This really piqued my interest! About six years ago after a life time of heavy caffeine use ( unaware at the time I was self medicating my adhd ) I had to quit due to heart palps and GI issues. In addition to the normal withdrawal symptoms I began almost immediately having sever panic attacks for the first time in my life. I did not know what was going on at the time. After A few weeks I couldn’t take it anymore so I started caffeine again. The panic attacks abated. But, a few weeks later the heart palps and GI issues became unbearable so I had to quit again. This time the withdrawals were 4 times as bad and the panic attacks were much worse. This continued steadily for over two years! In that time if I had a little caffeine I’d feel great but within three days an upsurge of panic attacks would hit.
I’m wondering if the sudden removal of the caffeine and it’s effect on my norepinephrine system as mentioned in your article was the cause. It was like I went immediately into having all sorts of PTSD symptoms.
Shane, I not a doctor or ‘medical professional’ by any stretch. But what you describe sounds like caffeine withdrawal symptoms. Is it possible for you to do tiny doses of caffeine everyday without the adverse side effects and to avoid withdrawal symptoms?
David,
I wish I could continue caffeine but I can’t unfortunately.
It has been a few years since I quit caffeine. The sudden cessation of it brought on the issues I mentioned above and they lasted for a little more than two years. I certainly had the initial and more common caffeine withdrawals but I think there was something deeper going on. I’ve had many doctors take a guess at what it was. They all agree the caffeine was medicating something and all agreed that that stopping the caffeine brought on the other symptoms. But, all had different theroies about the mechanism and treatment. What you wrote in the article about a disruption in The norepinephrine system was as good or better than anything they told me. I guess it’s why they call it ‘practicing’ medicine. LoL!
Thanks for your time!
Shane, thanks for your feedback on this issue. And the ‘practicing medicine’ would be hilarious if it was’t so spot-on about much of mainstream healthcare. And why we’re often on our own figuring this stuff out.
Hey David. I was until recently taking Concerta. The only supplements I have tried while on it have been magnesium oil, zinc, Tongkat Ali, Horny Goat Weed, and ashwhaganda. I started having horrible heart palps, blurry vision, some breathing issues, and a feeling in my chest like you get when running sprints on a cold day, that cool burn sensation. I had wondered if any of those supps might have interacted badly with the Concerta, but even without taking them I was still having side effects from the Concerta. I only hope I haven’t done permanent damage to myself. I’m uneasy about trying another med. I may just go all in with the stack in your article and see how that goes. It’s a bummer, because before the side effects started Concerta was a miracle for me! Even my anxiety disappeared on it! Well, I guess the search continues.
Shane, it’s likely either Tongkat Ali or Horny Goat Weed that caused these side effects. I suggest stopping those two supplements and see how you feel in a couple of days.
The stack I describe in this post was designed to work specifically with a stimulant like you are using. It works for me and for thousands of others.
The key to making nootropic supplements work for you is start slow and low. And be willing to try different things. But also to learn everything you possibly can about a supplement “before” you try it. And learn the exact mechanism of action of Concerta so you can anticipate interactions with other supplements.
I forgot to mention that I was also using Maca powder. I wonder if this could have caused problems too? Since we last talked I’ve done a little more research and leaning that it was indeed the HGW and the Tongkat as the main culprits and not the Concerta. Luckily I was able to get squeezed to see my doc tomorrow and I will be running it all by him.
Shane, Maca is acts like a MAOI which is going to affect dopamine in your brain and possibly serotonin to a lesser degree. I suggest doing a search and learn the exact mechanism of action or pharmacology for various kinds of maca. And unless you lucked out and have a great homeopathic physician as your family doc I doubt he’ll be much help in this area.
Thanks David. Yeah, sounds like a definite no-no to mix with Concerta. I appreciate your time.
David, have you ever encountered a supplement that didn’t mix well with your Ritalin and caused you to have any unpleasant side effects?
Thanks,
Shane
Shane, yes I have but it’s difficult to nail down if Ritalin was the culprit. The one that comes to mind is 5-HTP. I’ve found I need a little during the day to keep dopamine and serotonin in balance. But when I first started I was using too high a dose and felt like crap and sweat a lot. Another I’ve found that does not work period is melatonin.
I’m sure there may be others but nothing else comes to mind at the moment.
Be interested in what your experience has been.
Hell David
I am 51 and have ADD.I went on Ritalin but too many side effects and it wore off quickly.
I tried( ILS ) on 8000 hrtz. INTEGRATED LISTENING SYSTEMS where the workout stimulates blood flow to the cerebellum by combining workouts that involve balance and coordination at the same time while one has earphones that vibrates.The vibrations stimulate blood flow to the cerebellum. It worked for me.People around me said that I don’t jump from one topic to another any more; but one has to do it permanently and the effects went down when I stopped.
Corrective Chiro: I went to a corrective chiro and found that my neck was 27 mm off target. That means that when the neck is bend too far, the neuro signals have difficulty to pass through the spinal cord.The ganglia in the brain who regulates blood flow to the cerebellum can’t do the job and the cerebellum get too much or too little blood and ones brainwaves goes up or down.The same principle apply when a woman gets osteoporosis and the vertebrae bends. The neurosignals can’t get through to the kidneys because parts of the vertebrae disintegrates and cause the bend and influence the signals to the kidneys or liver.The doctor treats the kidneys but the problem is in the bended vertebrae.Think of a hosepipe. The more it bends the more the water struggle to get through.It worked for me. I felt that my awareness went up. I noticed that 8 out of 10 times I remembered where I put my pen.I saw scans of people with ADHD before and after 3 months of corrective chiro.The brain shows red because it is overheated due to too much blood and after 3 months the brain shows purple and blue, indicates that the blood flow is normal because the ganglia gets the neuro signals that regulates the blood to the cerebellum which is the software centre of the brain.ADD is on the increase because everybody’s necks is bend for the most part of the day due to smartphones and computers.I stopped the treatment because I am in a country now that don’t have corrective or neuro chiropractors.
TMS. Trans cranial magnetic stimulation. They put pads on your head and treat the affected area in the brain with magnetic impulses.ADHD , stroke , brain damage patients benefits because it stimulates growth in the affected areas.It is very expensive as well.
I saw a Russian doctor who cured autism patients by sorting out gut bacteria. Our guts give of serotonin.Vaccines and the antibiotics kills the good gut bacteria.We can also get rid of the mercury fillings. Mercury is bad for our brains and one can get stuff from a naturopath to pull out metals in the body.It is a good idea to test one self for metals in our systems.Ones cholesterol might be too high because the liver forms a protective layer in the veins to prevent you from absorbing the mercury.
What would you recommend for focus, motivation , memory and impulsive behavior ?
Harm, the stack I have highlighted in the top section of this post works well for focus, motivation and memory. And scroll down the the section titled, “Taming Hyperactivity” for impulsive behavior.
I also find that Lithium Orotate works well for calming impulsive behavior: https://nootropicsexpert.com/lithium-orotate/
Thank you so much for your response Mr. David. I finally met a psychiatrist and discussed my issues with him. He told me that I was suffering from anxiety and OCD (actually he said I had a very anxious personality), and prescribed Zoloft (50 mg 1st week; increased to 100mg in the 2nd week both to be taken once daily) and Valium 5mg (1/2 + 1/2 daily).
He said that along with medication, I’ll also have to go through CBT sessions. I have no other choice right now but to follow his advice and see how things go. It would have been great if I tried experimenting with nootropics but the problem is that I live in Asia and nootropics are not that common in the market in my country. In addition to this, there is a high chance some nootropics might be banned in my country Ordering supplements online is not feasible as the price doubles or triples when shipment + tax charges are added once they reach here. I even have some financial issues now so experimenting in my case will involve a lot of risk.
I have been through the social anxiety article of yours and the advice regarding treatment was quite informative and helpful. I just wanted to know whether nootropics are capable of completely curing chronic anxiety and other similar cognitive issues or is there a need of psychotherapy to be coupled with it for a complete recovery?
Thanks
Frank, it’s good to hear that you are making progress. I encourage you to please learn as much about each prescription drug as you can. Wikipedia is a good source for this type of thing. For each drug scroll down to the section that says, “pharmacology” or “mechanism of action”. You can use this information to find a nootropic supplement that does that same thing.
Also keep in mind that once you start on these drugs if can be very difficult to quit them. Dependence is a very serious issue and not talked about my the drug manufacturers or medical “professionals”.
Most of the time you can find a nootropic supplement that works as well as the prescription drug but doesn’t have the side effects.
Some can manage chronic anxiety with just nootropics. But others may need psychotherapy as well. It depends on the person and how successful you are in finding a good therapist.
Hello Mr. David
I hope you’re fine and doing well. I’m quite impressed by your work in providing help and guidance on treating mental problems.
Is there any link between ADHD and gut issues such as malabsorption and leaky gut?
Do nootropics get easily absorbed and utilized by the body of individuals suffering from such digestive issues? Or should they be taken in larger amounts than their normal dose?
Kind reply.
Thank you
Frank, there is very likely a link between some ADHD symptoms and leaky gut and microbiome issues. But absorption of nootropics is not so much a digestive issues as it is a delivery issue. For example, fat-soluble nootropics need a healthy fat to be delivered into cells. Water soluble nootropics do not. So it depends …
I’m a 28 years old male and have been struggling with mental issues since adolescence. I have been struggling a lot with focus, concentration and attention all this time. I’ve suffered a lot in academics (lagging almost 6 years behind my school class mates) and am quite worried about my future.
After coming across your website and reading your articles, it seems that there is a high chance I might be suffering from ADHD. I’ve never been to a psychiatrist yet believing that the drugs they give cause more harm than benefit. But after reading your article, now I think I should rather visit one.
My main problem is with articulation. I can’t express my thoughts/ideas verbally in a smooth flow. My mind just gets stuck in between of the sentence formation and most of the time I just don’t know the appropriate word/words to complete the sentence. This applies to both written and oral communication (It’s taking me a lot of time in writing this passage). I’ve tried a lot to improve my vocabulary and do reading but still face a lot of difficulty (I think that’s just obvious because of my brain’s poor cognitive state).
Is this type of condition associated with ADHD? I also have anxiety issues and a bit depression I think. I’m not sure whether it is a co-morbid condition or pure ADHD.
Frank, I sometimes wonder what my life would have been like if I’d met the psychiatrist I finally got to see 12 years ago. But one thing I’ve learned is it’s pointless to say, “I should have…”.
Yes, please see a professional because what you are experiencing is treatable. And yes, all of the symptoms you mentioned are associated with a form of ADHD or ADD.
But you may not need to use prescription drugs to treat this. Or you may need to use them. It’s up to you and how you respond to the nootropics I investigate in this post.
I’m NOT a pharmaceutical salesman and am not encouraging you to use a prescription stimulant. But to be fair, I encourage you to do your research. Ritalin (methylphenidate) for example has a 5 decade track record of being relatively safe. Others not so much. Using the nootropics in this stack however help improve that safety and safeguard your brain. Even help repair it.
Last word … be very careful about choosing a doctor. It took me many years before I found one I could trust and knew what he was talking about. So get started with the nootropics on this page, and follow the recommendations while you do your search. And good luck. You can get better. In know because I did.
Thank you so much Mr. David for your time and detailed response. You’re right. Finding an experienced psychiatrist in my city would be a great challenge and will take some time.
I have this other question in mind. How does a person suffering from a myriad of mental issues find out the real nature of his problem i.e. whether there is an imbalance of neurotransmitters (if it is so, then specifically which one/ones are out of range and are they produced more or less) or whether his neuroreceptors are damaged or the blood flow is slow?
There are various possibilities and many symptoms of depression, anxiety and ADHD are a bit common and these overlap with each other.
So should one just start using the specific nootropics mention for their purposes on trial and basis or is there any special way to deal with this situation.
I’m sorry but I’m quite overwhelmed. I appreciate you for your time and answer.
Thanks
Frank, it’s difficult and expensive to get neurotransmitter levels tested. And the tests are pretty much useless because these are blood tests. And many neurotransmitters work within neurons and other cells. There is no way to test for that.
So what’s left is trial and error. For example, try L-Tryptophan to raise serotonin and see if you fee any difference. If not, then try L-Tyrosine to raise dopamine levels and see how you feel.
See where I’m going with this? The same goes for GABA, acetylcholine and other neurotransmitters. The key is trying different things until you start feeling better.
One thing you can assume is as you age you will have less blood flow in your brain and damaged neuroreceptors. So while you’re testing whether you have issues with dopamine vs serotonin you should be using nootropics to repair receptors (i.e. Lion’s Mane) and to increase blood flow (i.e. Vinpocetine or Pine Bark Extract).
Hello David, Would you believe I am 67, and reading your info with great enthusiasm.
You might like to know that I SWITCHED from Adderall to Dex Spangules about a year ago, and am staying on it for 2 major reasons. One, for me it’s less harsh on the body, and 2 the dose stays fairly balanced because what ever it is, (3 or 4) you only take it once in the morning. I have the same blood pressure issues with both however. What might I take to cut back and how much? NALT? ACLCAR? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Lori Ells
Lori, NALT and ALCAR help potentiate or support whatever ADHD meds you are using. Some may be able to reduce the amount of medication they are using by supplementing with the nootropics suggested in this post. But it’s really up to you and how your body and brain react.
Excellent article! What have you found to be the best diet to support your ADHD brain?
Shane, cutting out most sugar and all processed foods is a good start. Eat the ‘cleanest’ you can afford. Make sure you stay with healthy fats and avoid the bad ones.
In your experience, what have you found to be the most effective macro-nutrient ratio?
Shane, I haven’t figured out the best macro-nutrient ratio for cognitive health down to a percentage. But my experience is slightly higher in ‘healthy’ fats, with a little less but evenly split carb/protein.
Thanks for your time. I appreciate your input.
Does it mean anything that someone responds better to Adderall than Ritalin besides which one to take?
John, I found I respond better to Ritalin that to Adderall. The have different mechanisms of action. The only way to know is to give both a 2 – 3 month trial and see which works best
I’m interested in what you said about NALT and ALCAR helping with ritalin crash. Do you know how this works?
Also does one of them help more than the other?
I take ritalin every day and love it except for the bad crash I get at the end of the day where I feel very tired and in a bad mood.
Ritalin is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor which means it forces more dopamine to remain in a usable form in your brain. But your brain only has so much dopamine daily that it can use. If you force it to use more dopamine, and especially as you older, in simple terms – you run out before the end of the day. So you crash.
NALT supplies the precursor L-Tyrosine for making more dopamine. And ALCAR helps brain cell signaling and acetylcholine production which ensures efficient transport and use of that extra dopamine.
Geat !! I will look into it. i dont know why the terrible migraine thought, im actually hisitant about taking another one (NALT) . maybe the blend i took wasn’t a pure mix. it was the Source Natural brand.
Ryan, not sure why either. But I think your mentioned it contained “folic acid” which is synthetic. And I recommend avoiding any supplement using this fake version of folate. I like some of Source Naturals products but they are not consistent in their quality.
Thank you David ! Will try a different one. The one thing that snaps me out of my ADD and puts me in an amazing state of focus and concentratiion is pseudoephedrine. Not sure why.
Ryan, I’m not sure why either. Look at the mechanism of action of pseudoephedrine here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine#Mechanism_of_action
It’s acting as a stimulant. You may want to try Asian Ginseng which also has stimulant qualities. https://nootropicsexpert.com/ginseng/
Hey David, thanks for all your information. I’m 33 years old and believe to have mild to moderate ADD, due to my line of work I’m unable to take prescription medication so I have to settle for natural supplements currently taking Bacopa, phosphatidylserine complex 500 mg, Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 mg, DMAE 130 mg, fish oil . Last night I tried taking N-acetyl-L tyrosine 300mg which contained (b-6 and 400 mcg folic acid) this morning I woke up drowsy and with a sort of “hungover” feeling and headache. Do you have any recommendations on what other supplements I could take. I’m also a competitive shooter and need to be alert and focused, I’ve tried things like Ashawangda but makes me too drowsy, it appears I’m very sensitive to supplements. The one thing that has helped me focus and be in the “Zone” is Rhodiola 3/1 ratio.
Thank you.
Ryan, you’re on the right track. I used the nootropic stack described in this post for exactly one year without using prescription stimulants. And it worked. If I was in your situation I would re-read this post so you completely understand how and why this stack works. And consider using it.
Do not take NALT before bed! You need this precursor to dopamine and norepinephrine during the day for all the reasons outlined in this review here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/n-acetyl-l-tyrosine/
And I just published a post on nootropics for eSports which applies to competitive shooting as well: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-esports-gaming/. The professional gamer I consulted with for this post in Brazil ‘Noted’ reported that this advice including a caffeine + L-Theanine combo improved his reaction time from 188 to 132.
Hi,
I have a prescription for Adderall (for Adhd), it helps somewhat, and I am curious if adding nootropics on top might be beneficial. — Ideally just one (or two) products for now to see if this is the route I want to go… Would you have any recommendations?
Thanks
This entire post answers your question. Please read it again.
Thank you so much. I also suffer from ADD. As well as epilepsy. Right now I am using Genius Joy and ciltep. It helps a lot, it you have any suggestions please let me know.
Joseph, the best suggestions I have for treating ADD and ADHD are the nootropics reviewed in this post.
Hello how are you doing?:)We talked before with email.I have ADHD and it destroys my life and relationships.You advised me to take methylphenidate back then.I had some issues mainly joint pain but it has gone away due to other supplements i use.However it helps a lot.First day i took it i had the best sleep of my life and i felt a feeling as everything was taken care of,a feeling of fulfillment of sorts.
I developed this stack after reading your post
1.Concerta 18mg +Ritalin 5mg in the evening
2.Ashwagandha 450mg 3 times daily
3.ALCAR 500MG 3 times daily
4.Ltyrosine 750 3times daily
5alpha gpc 600mg 2 times daily
6aniracetam 750mg 2 times daily
7nac 500 mg 3 times daily
8nicotine spray(use as needed ,5-10 mg most of the time daily)
This stack worked exceptionally well but it was still not enough believe it or not.I increased concerta to 36mg and everything felt perfect absolutely no symptoms of ADHD and i withdrew from nicotine altogether.However i developed bad muscle aches because of the drug.I stopped working out but still feel as if my muscles are burned or stabbed .I used to take 72 mg concerta some years before(i didnt know about nootropics) and i developed rhabdomyolysis because of it and was hospitalised.Nootropics helped me take a lot less of the drug definetely but i still have this bad side effect.I read somewhere that if you develop rhabdomyolysis once you are prone in the future.Funny that i read that now they added a rhabdomyolysis warning to the drug.Also i feel extremely dehydrated and i can see it in my skin.I drink 6 liters of water but it is still not enough.Do you have any idea how to reduce this side effect?I tried modafinil too but had the same experience.Please help me i really need to take the drug i really forget what i read and have no motivation without it.I felt alive for the first time in years.I tried to buy some phenylpiracetam but i live in Europe so it is not possible.However the aniracetam here is sold as a drug so it is pharmaceutical grade so its all good :p
Concerta and Ritalin (both methylphenidate) are not on list for causing rhabdomyolysis (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1175909/). Are you sure that’s what the underlying problem is? How were you diagnosed with rhabdomyolysis?
Hello again thanks for your response:) Yes I was diagnosed in the hospital with a blood test. I had cpk levels around 30.000 (normal is around 300-500 or something) and I stayed there for a week. Nothiing special they just checked my organs withdrew the drug and hydrated me IV. I withdrew the concerta and slept for like 16 hours yesterday. I started amantadine for Adhd. Will this be enough along with the other stuff? Also another question I have is how you deal with stress from stimulants and why don’t you take the XR medication? If you take ritalin twice daily you only cover like 8 hours of the day right? How do you deal with adhd the rest of the day?
I’m not a doctor and can’t comment on the efficacy of using amantadine for treating ADHD. My research shows it is prescribed as an anti-Parkinson’s medication.
I found that extended release methylphenidate did not work for me as well as instant release. And I designed the nootropic stack in this post to support ADHD with and without any type of stimulant ADHD medication. Including instant release. It’s the reason for dosing ALCAR and NALT late afternoon.
Thank you very much David
Hello David I hope you are doing ok. I stopped immediately taking sertralin after talking to you. And after 2 weeks i also stopped ritalin because it gave me a bad chest pain. Doctor prescribed me Modafinil today. Does the stack outlined here work with modafinil? By the way only cholin supply i could find in Turkey is a mixture with inositol and methionin. Unfortunately the mixture mostly composed of those two. I have to take 2 pills to grt enough cholin. And i get 1,2 gr of inositol and methionine. I know inositol is good for anxiety with this amount but what about methionine? Does it any have any advers effects you know if i use this mixture for my stack. Stay healthy. Thank you.
And you know what here NAC is sold as a drug that is used to destroy the mucus in body. İt is in efervesant forms or in powder form. İt is not found as a supplement. I was able find out that after a thorough search but i finally got my NAC.
Thanks Barış. Good information for our readers in Turkey.
This stack should work well with Modafinil. I’m a little surprised that you can’t find a choline supplement in Turkey. Does this include things like “choline bitartrate” and “choline citrate”? Inositol and methionine are both beneficial for brain and overall health.
You can raise choline levels by eating more eggs. Not sure if it’s enough. If you get a headache using this stack it means your brain needs more choline.
It is cholin bitartrate. I will continue to search for a better supply.
Choline bitartrate will work but you just need to take much more of it.
Dear David i hope you are fine. I am continiously experimenting with my stack. Modafinil is great it really keeps me awake. I can listen to people without my brain gets foggy and distracted. But like all drugs it is said that some cannot use it everyday. My problem is that actually i need to be alert all the time. I am not like a student or working women just expected to perform at school or office. I need to be alert and in a good mental condition especially at home in the evening. Because this has become a problem with my marriage. I need something continius. Next week i will tell the doctor. And if you have any suggestion i apreciate. Besides i have this chest pain. It’s been several weeks. Limiting caffeine worked a little bit. And I am trying to eliminate each thing in my stack by removing one at a time. L-tyrosine , alcar or methionin-inositol-cholin mix. Do you have an idea which nootropic may cause chest pain? Finally last question. I think nootropil makes me sleepy. Even with modafinil. İs it possible? Maybe nootropil is not good for me?
Have a good day and stay healthy.
You should be able to successfully use Modafinil or other prescription stimulant with the stack described in this post.
This nootropic stack was designed to support daily use of a stimulant. Or for someone who chooses to treat ADHD without the use of prescription drugs.
The only thing I can think of that could cause chest pain is L-Tyrosine if you are also using a MAOI, or if your dopamine is already too high. This puts strain on your system which can result in a hypertensive crisis like chest pain or a heart attack.
Will talking all those supplements at once per day not cause anything? Also it doesn’t matter which supplements but they all function fine together when consumed?
Yes this stack was made to work in synergy for best effect.
Hello David,
I can’t tell you how much thankful I am for your article and all the work you’ve put into it, It’s really amazing. I am dealing with a very bad “zoning out” problem which has affected every part of my life for several years now. I am 19, and I knew that I could no longer live like this if I wish to live the life I want to. I am certain of having ADD based on my researches and I would do anything to get rid of it. This zoning out problem caused me a great lack of focus and concentration in whatever activity I am doing such as communication, reading, or anything that requires focus and cognitive thinking(for life in general). I always feel tired and unmotivated to do things and I overthink everything which therefore greatly affects my ability to recall, memorize and live life based on learned experiences. I failed several of my college courses, cut off any real friendship and therefore am living inside my own head repeating useless overthinking. My brain becomes foggy whenever I am talking with someone and I can’t think of words to say. I haven’t got diagnosed of ADD yet which I’m pretty sure I have but I am really hoping to make an impact on my brain with your suggested nootropics supplements before talking to my doctor. I will try your stack and get back to you but I’d love any suggestions of more supplements to add for concentration and better memory function.
Ps: Also I am currently talking two 500mg of Levetiracetam per day as a seizure(experienced twice) prevention drug. I already ordered a MindLabPro stack and looking forward to add more supplements but I’m also wondering if they will have an effect with my seizure medication.
Imran, there’s nothing in Mind Lab Pro that would contribute to seizures that I can think of. Or anything else in this ADHD stack.
Not sure what country you’re in but CBD Oil has been shown effective with seizure disorders.
Pay particular attention to vitamins, minerals and fat like coconut oil. Most people don’t realize how critical the simplest things are to alleviate brain fog and cognition. It’s the very basics of good cerebral health.
It will take a few weeks of consistent daily use of these supplements. So please let us know if and how this stack works for you.
Hi David,
You’re experience and information is extremely valuable. Thank-you!!
It’s been awhile since you wrote this article. Have you changed or improve your stack since writing the original post?
Thanks,
Angela
Angela, I’m basically using the same stack described in this post. I have made a couple of tweaks since and will be update the post this week. Small tweaks but worth doing so stay tuned …
Thank you!!
Have you experienced any tolerance to Aniracetam or Sulbutiamine? I’ve read that some people do especially to sulbutiamine.
Angela
Angela, I personally have not experienced tolerance with either Aniracetam or Sulbutiamine. But I know others have. You can avoid tolerance by taking a two day break every week if it’s a concern.
Dear David thanks for amazing work. My problem is that I always forget something although I take notes and my brain is foggy. I hear, I think but I can’t do what I should do somehow, thoughts just flowing and going. I am always like that:… ” Did we talk about it? Really, hmm I don’t remember. Did we decide to do it that way? Ohh. I remember what we’ve decided before about that. Soryy, hmmm”… This ruins my marriage and my husband never understand my situation and I cannot explain. How can I? I cannot find the right words to describe what going on with me! Reading your articles I just try to understand the mechanism in my brain. I started with 36 mg concerta and the only difference I felt was ‘Hey! I can listen to people talking to me without distruction!’ and that was all. Then we moved to 54 gr. of concerta and I even lost that little difference with 36 gr. Nothing happened. Doctor said that there is nothing they can do more for me. He did not try any other medicaton or therapy. What deficiency could be in my brain ? I will try your stack described here. Any additional suggestion? Thank you very much again. Your answer is important to me. Because nobody understands me.
Baris, use the stack I outline in this post for 2 -3 weeks and see if there is any improvement. Your brain needs the dopamine and acetylcholine this stack provides. Also do a search of Nootropics Expert and find supplements that support mitochondria in your cells. PQQ and CoQ10 are likely your best choices. Neurotransmitter and mitochondrial support should make a noticeable difference in what you are dealing with.
Thank you very much I will try and give feed back!
Dear David two weeks ago after we speak here I stopped Concerta and Selectra and started with 1600 mg. Piracetam (we don’t have Aniracetam in Turkey), 500 mg. Alcar, 500 mg. l- Tyrosine (again we don’t have acetyl l-tyrosine here), Rhodiola and a natural B complex. And Ritalin 10 mg. I tried 15-20 mg 2-3 days after starting Ritalin but i am not sure it is good for me. It’s not like turning of the lights actually for me. Also I have some pain in the eye like it did with concerta. Maybe I should try Straterra next month when see my doctor. By the way today I cut off Rhodiola and go back to Sertralin (Selectra). I felt I need to take Selectra again because I can’t cope with what I have been through nowadays especially at home. Which nootropics I can use instead of selectra? Maybe Straterra will do the work? And I plan to go 2400 mg. with piracetam. Next mont I will also add Q10 I hope. Unfortunately it is not easy to find good supplements with a good price here. I am still searching for a cholin supply. Thank you in advance.
Barış
Baris, Concerta and Ritalin each work on “dopamine” in the brain. Strattera affects “norepinephrine”. So if the first two (dopamine agonists) do not work as well as you like, then you may want to try either Strattera or Adderal (norepinephrine agonists).
The thing is that SSRIs like Sertralin boosts serotonin. Which depresses dopamine and contributes to ADHD symptoms. This can be counteracted by boosting dopamine even more by using L-Tyrosine and/or Mucuna Pruriens. But please carefully review the side effects for Sertralin and then decide if it’s worth the risk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sertraline
Any of the racetams, including Piracetam will only work if taken with a choline supplement. If you are having a difficult time finding Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline (Citicoline) then see if you can find something like choline bitartrate or choline citrate. You just need to use a lot more.
Strattera (norepinephrine) is not a substitute for a SSRI like Sertralin (serotonin). Please use something like Wikipedia and research the “pharmacology” or “mechanism of action” of each of these drugs until you understand how they work. And what the difference is between them.
If Rhodiola didn’t work for you then try something else. You can try Bacopa Monnieri, Ginkgo Biloba, or St. John’s wort. This last one is a very, very potent natural SSRI. But please read the review and dosage instructions for St. John’s wort. And DO NOT combine it with a prescription SSRI or MAOI.
Do this drugs have any side effect in long term???
Each nootropic supplement discussed in this post has live links to a full review of each. Which includes side effects.
These are dietary supplements and NOT pharmaceutical drugs. See each review for the 85+ nootropics reviewed here on Nootropics Expert for side effects.
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. I have 2 boys, ages 11 and 6 both diagnosed with ADHD with only the younger one with the hyperactive component. I also have an 8 year old daughter who has high functioning ASD and although hasn’t been formally diagnosed, I suspect also has ADHD. As I’ve researched this topic more it’s become clear to me that I likely have ADHD as well. Although suggeseted by the doctors that have diagnosed them, I am weary of giving them prescription meds and have been on a research mission to come up with a cocktail of supplements to treat them but am overwhelmed by the info. Are you aware of any sources specific to children or do you have any advice yourself? On my current list of supplements for this “cocktail” are omega 3s, zinc, iron, magnesium, vitamin c, probiotics, B6 and B12, GABA, Rhodiola Rosea, L Dopa, L-theamine and phosohatidylserine and possibly CBD–in what doses and forms that I don’t know…
Totally confused and overwhelmed and equally desperate to help these kiddos out.
Alexis, first I’m not a doctor and don’t even play one on TV. So please keep that in mind. I personally do not have specialized knowledge with children and ADHD. But someone who does and whom I respect is Dr. Daniel Amen. Please use the resources on his site for more on the different types of ADHD.
One thing I’ve learned is depending on the severity of ADD and ADHD there is only so much you can do with natural nootropic supplements. For someone who is truly clinically ADHD you may need a prescription stimulant. And 10 years worth of research for myself shows that Ritalin (methylphenidate) is the safest of all of them for long-term use. And very effective.
You are on the right track with the stack you are currently using. But keep in mind that dopamine works in concert with serotonin. It is easily possible to throw the balance in the direction of dopamine using supplements like L-DOPA. These must be in balance and you can help by using L-Tryptophan: https://nootropicsexpert.com/tryptophan/.
Pine Bark Extract is helpful for ADHD: https://nootropicsexpert.com/pine-bark-extract-pycnogenol/.
I think you can help reduce your overwhelm by learning how stimulants like methylphenidate work in the brain. Wikipedia is a good resource for this type of research. Once you understand how something like Ritalin works you’ll have a clearer idea on what you are dealing with here. And the types of supplements that can help.
Only other thing I’d suggest right now is a high quality multivitamin/mineral supplement that uses nature-identical nutrients and not synthetics. See my posts on vitamins and minerals under the “Blog” tab. And instead of just B6 and B12, try a B-Complex vitamin like Life Extension’s BioActive Complete B-Complex.
1) For what reason the effect can’t be recreated?
2) I have read on reddit to add also these can boost ritalin effect:
– L-tyrosine
– Magnesium, Calcium and Zinc
what do you think about?
3) it will be userful use also the Lion’s Mane Mushroom or it will be to much things in a time?
4) and another question 🙂
do you thing it’s a good idea take 20mg only in the morning?
thank you a lot
Andrea, you get accustomed to things very quickly. It’s like the “new normal”. So what had a “wow” factor before is now commonplace. You get used to working and performing at a higher level.
What you read on reddit is correct. L-Tyrosine is a precursor to dopamine. And Ritalin requires dopamine to work. The synthesis of dopamine also requires a host of vitamins and minerals in very tiny amounts. But if any one of them is missing then dopamine will not be created. And calcium channels are required for brain cell signaling.
Lion’s Mane is a great addition because it helps repair damage to receptors. Including dopamine receptors that may have been damaged from the use of Ritalin.
Hi David
My son is diagnosed bipolar with adhd and generalized anxiety disorder. Also insomnia. 30 yrs old. On 60 mg Vyvanse daily and Ambien occasionally (always takes more than prescribed, so it only lasts about 8 days per month. Then he turns to drinking beer and taking 3-6 25 mg tabs of Benadryl to sleep. What I started him on: pharmepa restore pure epa omega 3 1000mg, life extension b complex vitamins, inositol, vitamin d3, magnesium and zinc. Nothing changed. I added bacopa and he shou wu. After a week he said he felt a tiny bit better. Then I read about the uridine stack. I added uridine and krill oil and took out epa omega 3. Today is day 3 and he’s just going downhill. Please tell me what I’m doing wrong! He has no motivation, very apathetic, and today woke up angry and agitated.
Dianna, sounds like you are understandably overwhelmed. So let’s take this a step at at time. First, click on the “Blog” tab up top, scroll through and read each post for “social anxiety” which is the same as “anxiety”, and the post on sleep.
Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) is an anticholinergic. Which means that it blocks acetylcholine in the brain. Which is a really bad idea for all kinds of reasons. Including ADHD, bipolar, anxiety and sleep. Using Bacopa to increase neural signaling will not work here because when you suppress acetylcholine, there is nothing to signal with.
You should select an Omega-3 based on EPA and DHA content rather than a source like “krill”. The human brain is made up most of DHA fatty acids. So we need an Omega-3 that supplies at least 1,000 mg of DHA per day. In this case you may want to boost it to 2 – 3,000 mg of DHA per day. Nature’s Way makes a product called Mega-DHA that is about $10. And two capsules provides 1,000 mg DHA.
You are on the right track with Life Extension’s B-Complex, Vitamin D, magnesium and zinc. Zinc requires 1.5 – 2 mg of copper because it suppresses copper. For inositol you want 2,000 mg of “myo-inositol” per day. 1,000 mg in the morning and 1,000 mg before bed. You may also want to try Lithium Orotate.
It helps to take about 400 mg of chelated magnesium about 90 minutes before bed because it helps sleep.
He shou wu is a potent MAO-B inhibitor. Which means it boosts intracellular levels of dopamine in the brain. But if the dopamine is cycled too fast, or there is not enough dopamine in the first place you’ll get things like agitation, irritability, and loss of motivation. If he is using Vyvanse, the brain is likely already starved for dopamine. An MAO-B inhibitor could make things worse.
I suggest following the ADHD protocol I outline in this post. Read the other posts I mentioned and see the synergy and overlap in symptoms including anxiety and insomnia. You’re going in the right direction so continue to tweak his stack of supplements. And please re-visit the use of Benadryl. Because continued use will make anything you try that much more difficult.
David,
Thank you so much for the response! I’ve ordered everything you mentioned in your ADHD protocol. We started the nighttime protocol but it didn’t seem to help last night. I told him it would take time. My plan is to start with the Mind Lab Pro for a week and add in all the extras one at a time. I’ll let you know how it works! Thanks again for your help! I’m also reading all your blog posts.
David
We’ve stopped the Benadryl. He’s been on your protocol for a little more than a week. Both the sleep and ADHD protocols. Sleep has not improved. I’m adding ashwagandha and P5P to his sleep protocol. He’s also very depressed again. I’ve been reading up on Tianeptine. I’m just not sure how it would interact with everything else I’m giving him. Btw, he’s taking everything in the ADHD protocol, just not the last dose. I thought that might be too much for him. But I’m no expert….that’s why I’m asking for your help once again.
Dianna, it’s been awhile since we chatted so please respond if I get this wrong. First, Tianeptine is not such a good idea for a couple of reasons. It’s bad news for anyone with addictive tendencies. One of the most popular nootropic vendors (Powder City) went out of business partly because one of their customers died from a Tianeptine overdose. Or what was blamed on Tianeptine at least. And second, it doesn’t do so well with those who are bipolar: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27274258
The last dose of my ADHD protocol (around 4 PM) is to prevent the crash that usually comes from using stimulant ADHD meds.
It will take more than a week of consistently using these nootropics for things to get better. The human brain is an amazing machine and can heal. But the damaged brain takes awhile to repair itself even given the right tools.
It took me nearly 3 years before I finally got back on track. Things started to get a little better within a few months. Some of that 3 years obviously came from trial and error and trying different supplements. But much of the time was what it took to heal.
This takes a long-term commitment and a ton of patience. All you can do is help and support the way you are doing now. But the ‘patient’ has to be willing and determined as well. I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you as a mother. I’m married with two young “adult” step-kids so experience this myself every day.
What exactly are you using for sleep?
David
For sleep he takes 400 mg magnesium bisglycinate, 500 mg l-tryptophan from tryptopure, 1000mg myo-inositol, tart cherry juice, and added ashwaganda last night. Just got the P5p in today and was going to add that to his nighttime stack. I’m just at a loss as to why nothing is helping him sleep. I will stay away from Tianeptine but I was reading about something else called Kratom. It has helped some bipolar patients but anything that also causes insomnia scares me. It is also very addictive.
Dianna, I highly approve of Kratom. Just be cautious about who you get it from. Because there has been a problem with adulteration and salmonella lately. Look up a couple of the large Kratom associations here in the USA and you may find a forum with more info on a reputable vendor. Not something you want to buy at the local gas station.
And Kratom comes in various strains. Some are more stimulating than others. And some are great for sleep. Red Bali for example for sleep and antidepressant qualities. And you can’t OD on Kratom either. But it needs to be pure.
I will do more research on Kratom. Do you think I need to add the P5p to the morning when he takes his other b vitamins or would it be ok at night?
Because P-5-P is involved in dopamine and serotonin synthesis I’d take it in the morning.
And BTW, Kratom is not “highly addictive”. The press and Big Pharma are running scared because Kratom is a threat to their profits for opiates. Certain strains of Kratom are very effective for pain. As I mentioned before, there is a problem with adulteration and Kratom. When addictive drugs are mixed with Kratom and not disclosed you have trouble. And I suppose some addicts can get addicted to anything. But there is nothing in Kratom that can cause addiction at normal doses. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.
Hi David
I really appreciate your post and the commitment to help others!
I’m a guy of 18 years with adhd-pi, i went to a specialist but he didn’t nothing except that he took me around 500€…
so i started lonely to use the ritalin and was fantastic!
the first day i took 20mg at once in the morning (because 10mg was far to work) and was…WOW!
1) My chronical anxiety disappeared
2) My heart started to beating normal and i felt my hands warm up ( i ever had my hands too cold or to hot)
3) i felt very very euphoric and was really amazing!
4) i started do what in 1 month i didn’t do
5) i started to be more social and don’t take care of my old anxiety
and all this was around 15 days ago and i did some mistakes…
1) I slept really badly because my new work and problems… I went to bed at the 2 a.m and wake up at 5 a.m
2) i had to change the brand for the ritalin from PCH to MYLAN because I had finished the blister
3) i also have tried 7mg of dextroamphetamine but they haven’t worked (maybe because i haven’t more dopamine or other things..)
I love the effects of ritalin of the first 5/10 days (when under the pch ritalin) and i didn’t have any comedown but now i take around of 30mg of ritalin mylan and feel a bit “awake” but nothing compared to before and i feel a bit depressed and apathic…
Now what can i do?
if needed i can also try the adderall but i don’t want mess up too much my brain…
What’s your advices David?
I can buy everything if it will help me and can you please send me your paypal email? i want to donate you at least 10€ for your work and for your help… i think it’s the minimum that i owe you…
p.s sorry for my bad english
Andrea, your initial good response with Ritalin is understandable and normal. But it can’t last or be recreated. You can however help Ritalin do its job by providing your brain what it needs. I suggest researching and learning how Ritalin works in your brain. Wikipedia is a good place to start.
You’ll soon learn that Ritalin boosts dopamine levels by inhibiting the reuptake of this neurotransmitter in dopamine receptors. But if you don’t have enough dopamine for Ritalin to work then you’ll get the symptoms you are experiencing now.
This is the reason I created the stack described in this post because I was having the same problem. Click on the link for each nootropic in this post and learn how it works, why you need it, and how much to take.
I had the same problem with Adderall. My brain prefers Ritalin as well. It’s the way our brain is uniquely wired.
It’ll help if you increase dopamine levels by using NALT. And increase acetylcholine by using ALCAR. The other nootropics, vitamins and minerals described here support each of those neurotransmitters.
You should experience a decrease in the negative symptoms you describe if you follow the dosage and timing instructions in this post. If budget is an issue then start with NALT, ALCAR, Vinpocetine, coconut oil and DHA and see how you feel. Add a high quality B-Vitamin complex if you can. Then add the others one at a time when you can.
David,
I am 35 and have never been diagnosed ADD or ADHD but I know that I have one of the two. I have always had issues with focus, poor memory, poor mood and lack of motivation for certain tasks. Over the last 2-3 years, I have started researching more about ADHD when we noticed that our 1st son was having problems in 1st grade staying on task and focusing, so he was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. I believe that I also suffer the same as he does. I have tried a couple of different things, but nothing like what you have described in this article and much of this would be very expensive for me to try at the moment. I was wondering if you know of the product Lumonol by Avanse Nutraceuticals? It contains many of the things that I have already researched, but I have seen so many mixed reviews. I just wanted to get your input on it. Also, in doing your research, what have you read about ADHD and excessive yawning?
David, I just checked the label on “Lumonol” and I’ve got two problems with it. 1. the company uses a “Proprietary Formula” which I hate. It hides exactly how much of each ingredient is in their product. And 2. the doses of nearly every ingredient in that stack is too low to be of much benefit. Particularly with an ADD or ADHD brain.
I recommend you do some research on what happens in the ADD and ADHD brain. And how prescription stimulants hope to help correct those deficiencies. It will give you a better understanding on what you are dealing with.
Dr. Daniel Amen has done a lifetime of research into the ADHD brain. And it is his opinion (and I agree) that not all ADD or ADHD brains are alike. There is no “one size fits all” solution. And experimenting until you find your brain is working better is the only way to approach this both with you and your son.
You may just want to start with the basics of the stack I’ve suggested in this post. Start with ALCAR, NALT, DHA, Coconut oil, and a high quality B-Vitamin and see how you do over a couple of weeks. Then if you can, try adding Mind Lab Pro.
See the dosage recommendations on each one of the nootropics I’ve mentioned. Including detailed reviews on every one of the B-Vitamins. Because you need to get the dosage and type of each right so you can judge if they are helping you.
ADD and ADHD are primarily a dopamine and brain signaling issue. If you can boost dopamine and tweak the signaling between neurons you may experience better focus, alertness, memory and even mood.
I haven’t done any research on excessive yawning. Maybe not enough oxygen? Not sure but if that is the case, then a boost in blood flow may help. Vinpocetine is a champ when it comes to blood flow.
Thanks for the reply. I can see that the MindLab Pro product already contains 3 of the B Vitamins and NALT, so it would still be safe to start with these and then add the MindLab Pro? Or could I just start with MindLab and see how that works for me?
For my son, he is on 20MG Vyvanse and I believe it works to an extent, but mornings and evenings are brutal with him at times when the medication has worn off. I was thinking of trying something else along with Vyvanse to see if it helps. I have looked into this as well: https://vayadirect.com/assets/PI_Vayarin.pdf.
David, you can do the same thing with the stack I describe in this post and get the kind of results that the PDF you link to describes. But better.
You can start with Mind Lab Pro on its own and see how it works for you. But I have personally found that with a compromised brain like mine with ADD that the dosages are not high enough. The other ingredients in MLP help repair my brain. But this brain demands more dopamine and acetylcholine than can be supplied by MLP.
Your son experiences a crash when Vyvanse has “worn off” because his brain is depleted of dopamine and acetylcholine. And long-term use also likely damages neurons. The nootropics that I describe in the stack on this page is designed to restore those neurotransmitters and neurons. And it helps potentiate the prescription stimulant so it works better.
I use 10 mg Ritalin at 5 AM, 20 mg Ritalin at 8 AM and another 20 mg Ritalin at 11:30 AM. And by using the nootropic stack described on this page, I never experience a stimulant crash. Ever. But the dosing needs to be followed including the nootropics around 4 PM if you want to get the same results I’m getting. That is the only way to avoid a crash.
I read ,noopept can’t function well without cbd choline…but not (can) as stated above.
Affum, Mind Lab Pro does have some CDP-Choline. But when adding Noopept to your stack I find it helpful to add extra Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline. Your brain demands the extra acetylcholine because of Noopept.
Mr David
Once again I settled on this stack
Mindlabpro
NALT
ALCAR
Omega 3 DNA
Noopept.
I read noopept can function well without CDB Choline..
Mindlabpro contains contains citicoline..
Will noopept fit well into the stack. Substraction or Addition and something like dosages.
Thank you for all this beautiful material 🙂 can I ask your opinion on the burden that nootropics get to the kidneys?
thank you,
Alex
Alessandro,if you have perfectly healthy kidneys you should not have a problem as long as dosage instructions are followed closely. If someone is dealing with any type of kidney disease or malfunction I would recommend paying close attention to the “Side Effects” section of each nootropic review. And do additional research as well.
My 3 day journey on modafinil was unsuccessful.. While others says it start to kick in after an hour or less, almost about o.1%(according to my small online survey) says they fell the effect after some days which I see it to be rare. During 3 days of modafinil use
My Experience:
Day 1_half pill(100mg): I waked up at 5:20am smoke weed.(half of full roll) at 5:40am i took the pill. No effect.Not even wakefulness.
Day 2_full pill(200mg)waked up at 5:40am,no smoking,pope a pill and small wakefulness and no reaction again. I mean nothing experienced apart from some acute wakefulness.
Day 3 : no smoking and took in 400mg at 6:00am..Can feel the real wakefulness of it and nothing.
I used to smoke in the evening around 5:00pm to help me eat and sleep as well in all the 3 days.I have stop taking it because I don’t want to cause harm to the little memory I use daily.
But in my daily routine I smoked 3 time a day.(morning, afternoon and evening). I have leave by it from 2012 when I starting smoking. Sometimes I go to places where I cnt get and I’m able to stay off but only substitute it for alcohol to boost my appetite level. MY PROBLEMS: (I find it too hard to remember names of some of my mates in the same class although I hear them on daily basis. I easily forget information given to me to pass on to others.l learn and can’t remember making learning boring for me,,Anxiety,my decision making capacity on a scale of 5% will be rated 1.6%(bad for that).And I’m depressed to point that getting out bed even becomes a problem for me. I live a life of no planning,I have managed and struggle to leave up to this level until i became expose to smart drugs and Nootropics saving people life out there, l hope it can serve me also.There are soo many stack up there that I may not be able to afford all..so u choose best two stack to add to the mindlabpro to improve my recall; With ur best choice you must consider the following points for my sake:
*What can be bought online
*Can be shipped to Africa(world wide vendor).
*Pls I want know if i can obtain Ritalin online if Yes “where” reputable source and can be shipped to Africa,(dnt worry about customs),and should i continue to take the modafinil even aftet 3 days of no benefit except wakefulness or i should pause it for now.. Advise me on marijuana use..should I quite ?_ if yes , how can I do that without the withdrawal symptom and can it interfere the work of the Nootropics (mindlabpro and other stacks) in case it use alongside (I’m more interested in the recovering back of my memory)***Note: thousands of students are not interested in education anymore down here because of the problems listed above(1st and 2nd comments). I’m one of them. I was beginning to lose interest in education although I have a goal to achieve and then google lead me to smart drugs and Nootropics. I think now all I need is patients.. (This is supporting the first comment because it is unedited) I’m waiting for ur reply . With it I can take the step.1
Affum, I can relate to your story because I was not diagnosed Adult ADD until well into adulthood. I sometime wonder how my life would have been different if I understood this at your age.
If you’ve read my story you’ll know that I went for an entire year using the stack in this post without prescription Ritalin. And it worked very well.
You should do well with Mind Lab Pro. But I cannot stress enough that if you are truly ADD you must do more. Coconut or MCT Oil, a high quality multivitamin that has all the B-Vitamins in doses similar to what is described in each of the B-Vitamin reviews I’ve done. Or take a separate B-Complex supplement that uses folate (NOT folic acid) and methylcobalamin (NOT cyanocobalamin).
Your brain needs the basics like magnesium and zinc as well. And a high quality Omega-3 that has at least 1,000 mg of DHA. Do this every day for a month and you should notice a difference. But please understand that one magic pill will not make a difference. It will take a combination like described in this post and in this comment for you to experience relief.
Mr David
Thanks very much for to hard work. But I want bring u to the other part of the continent.
I’m from Africa _ country Ghana_ And in here everything about what your discussion is not possible. We don’t diagnose ADD or ADHD. So many of my student decide to drop out of school because of non performance and we have taking it as normal here.
I started to lose focus, concentration, depression, depression brain fog,anxiety and more over i dont even have the appettide for learning because i learn just this hour , conduct exams for me at that instant on what i just learn and i will able to produce just 15% of 50.It started when I was around 12yrs. And I will be 25 this December. I have struggle my way through life to nursing Training College and I can still see my life is falling apart. Frankly speaking, I started alcohol around 14yrs.
Edible marijuana at the time.
And I started smoking marijuana at the middle of 2012 after i failed my first secondary level final exams due.(WASSCE). I wrote a resist for the secondary level final exams and manage to pass through to here NTC:(NURSING TRAINING COLLEGE). My first year in NTC the struggle continues.
First semester I got 2 referre(failed 2 course) out of 7
2nd semester:2 referred
And I’m now in my second year first semester. The news of smart drugs and nootropics started kicking in last 4 month when I felt I have had eough. I’m afraid I cnt graduate from here.so I started by asking google what to do. So many options ..4 months now I have reading from all angle of smart drugs to nootropics. Modafinil(modalert 200mg) was the right answer I got from reddit, quora, and other I cnt remembered because of my short membrane span and inability to recall. I also searched for online vendors to buy it and afinil express was the target. Now the main problem: after I waited for 1month for my modafinil and hoping to be limitless(not like NZT but something small to help me recall after learning)because that is my fav movie.. 21/02/2018 I ordered and Thanks be to God I received it unteached in my college on 22/03/2018. I was more than happy bcos the hype of it online is so great I have trusted it a lot give my system a new lifestyle. 1st day: half pill(100mg)_No result: No focused or concentration,alertness, alittle wakefulness effect.I felt like normal.
2nd day: 1tablet(200mg)_ up dose
3rd day: 2tab(400mg)_wakefulness but no alertness or the other benefit. I don’t observe any of the side effect except for loss of appetite and small abdominal disturbances which I related it to the inability to eat but counteract it with smoking weed and within some minute I’m OK. What lead me ur site is MINDLABPRO which everysite visited rated #1 except few. But ur analysis and experience here kept me read over every comment( may because I’m on modafinil). But yet ur site is the one to give the analysis breakdown (smart drug n nootropics) that I need u. For saving time and typing.. My problems, taking modafinil and not been the wonder drug everyone is taking about to me. I fell like dying. I will definitely order for mindlabpro but maybe my dopamine and norepinephrine receptors may one way or the other not working properly. Ritalin could have be a better option in combination but I’m thinking of how to get it online. What should I do now. My life has been a standstill for about 15yrs now. I hope (with ur experience and knowledge) can help me fix my broken memory. I want to quite the MODA for now coz I don’t want any harm to the (disordered)memory I really on for now. I don’t expect much from smart drug or nootropics,at least if it can help me recall what I struggle to learn, I will greatful for that alone.Last but not the least (bcoz I will continue charting u on my journey of smart drugs and Nootropics),the stack up there are too many and I can just buy few. I choose Mindlabpro and *(ritalin, but cnt get it online so out)* What best two option cnt balance my mindlabpro..those u prescribe should be what I can buy online. And site that I can buy them from.. Is a shipment from Europe to Africa. And I want to quite marijuana too but cnt .. I stay off and lose appetite + insomnia. Too many problems. I need ur concerns.
I really appreciate this post! So much info and since I’ve got an ADD brain, I’ll need to read it through a few times to make sure I took that all in. I’m a 43 year old woman whose mom was told for repeatedly years that I “daydream too much” or “can’t keep still”, you know the usual ADHD tale of woe. I’m kinda clever so I managed stumble, bump, fall, and crash my way through college (and life so far lol) but last year after yet another semi major life failure, I decided to seek help for the ADD. It just affects every area of my life. From my ability to organize pretty much anything, to being able keep a clean house or even stay remotely on top of bills. Quite honestly, I’ve been in some ways just a walking disaster. I had some extensive psych testing and was officially diagnosed. The doc started me on a low dose of adderall (10 mg) and over the last six month that is now increased to 60 mg a day. Indeed I’m definitely better on it than off of it but in many ways I’m still a wreck. I’m also concerned about the fast that I seem to need more and more of it. Part of the issue is that I was on extended release for a few months and the doc says that for some people, XR Adderall loses effectiveness over time. I now take three 20 mg pills a day (morning, lunch, and then late afternoon). I am concerned that this will also lose effectiveness in time. Also there is this new issue of insomnia. Sleeping is very hard to come by. I can rarely get down before 3 AM and then I’m up by 6 AM – 7AM and often can’t mange a nap to make up for the loss (mind just won’t settle down). If I skip the Adderall (which I do at times so that I can mange a nap), I’m literally ALL over the place so I’m looking for an alternative to Adderall or possibly like you, something to add to the mix that will work with the Adderall and allow me to take less of it and increase it’s effectiveness. I’m getting pretty tired of failing and the psych testing also indicated that I’m of fairly high intelligence (though I’m no genius by any stretch) but certainly smart enough to have done better than I have thus far in life. The repeated failure has taken it’s toll and I do think I am struggling with some depression. On top of all of that I’m kind of an odd person and can be rather socially awkward. I’m hoping to find some help for that and the ADD with the Nootropics. Any advice that you can offer would be greatly appreciated as well.
Iesha, the insomnia is very likely coming from using Adderall too late in the day. If you follow the protocol in this post including the dosage recommendations later in the afternoon, you should be able to avoid the stimulant crash. And the nootropic supplements described in this post help potentiate Adderall.
Your brain starts to lose efficiency as you get older. Monoamine Oxidase builds up and prevents dopamine from doing its thing. And dopamine levels drop as you age as well. To help Adderall work you need to give your brain the dopamine and acetylcholine it needs. Otherwise, it doesn’t have the level of neurotransmitters required for Adderall to do its job.
Study this post as you mentioned until you understand what you need to do. I’d also suggest learning exactly how Adderall works in your brain. That will help you tie this post and what you learn from your homework together. Oddly enough, Wikipedia is a good place to learn more about Adderall and how it works.
Many thanks for the reply and excellent info David! I definitely see that just popping pills as prescribed isn’t going to get me where I need to be. Done that for a year with rather disappointing results. Very hopeful for a much better brain going forward.
Hello David –
Please know I have looked at several of your articles: Best Nootropis of 2017-2018, Nootropics Expert List of Blog Posts and the article on ADHD. I have a question or request if you will, it is to chart the differences between ALCAR, NAC and NALT.
I am a 52 year old woman who had been on Vyvance for 4 years with great success. My husband and I moved last year somewhat retired. When my PA found out I was on Vyvance, she rolled her eyes and told me she wasn’t comfortable with prescribing that, so I did some research on my own and thought I’d try a more natural approach. I bought L-Phenylalanine 500mg and also Acetyl-L-Carnitine 1000mg. This didn’t seem to do the trick so I found a new doc who would at least listen to me in why I wanted my brain back.
Anyway, I was given 10mg Adderall and she raised it to 15mg. Today, I researched to see if I could still take my L-Phenylalanine 500mg and also Acetyl-L-Carnitine 1000mg along with my Adderall. That is when I found you.
I too, have hypothyroidism along with ADHD. My father had Lewy-Body Alzheimer disease and so I am a bit nervous in my future. I am a visual learner so I would love to ‘see’ a chart, but if not I would love for you to email me the differences between NAC, ALCAR and NALT to possibly help both my ADHD and possibly stay or enhance memory. Thank you.
Terri, the differences between ALCAR, NAC and NALT are clearly explained in the full review of each of these nootropics. You can get to the full review of each by clicking on the live link near the top of this post. The review for NAC is here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/n-acetyl-l-cysteine/
ALCAR is a precursor needed to produce acetylcholine (ACh) in your brain. ACh is required for brain cell signalling.
NALT is a precursor to the synthesis of dopamine. Adderall works by increasing levels of dopamine in your brain. NALT provides some of that missing dopamine in the aging brain so Adderall can do its job.
NAC’s primary job is a precursor to the major antioxidant in your body glutathione. It also modulates glutamate and dopamine levels in your brain so things don’t get out of whack.
The stack I describe in this post is specifically designed to support the ADHD or ADD brain. And to support whatever prescription ADHD stimulant meds a person may be using. But they are ALL required to make this stack work. Including the B-Complex vitamins.
I highly recommend you learn exactly how Adderall works in your brain. Wikipedia is a good resource for these types of medications. Look for the section that says “mechanism of action”.
Then learn in detail about each of these nootropics by using the information provided here. So you have a clear understanding how these supplements work. And how they may interact with the prescription medications you are using.
Hi – Thank you for sharing all of this that you are learned. Wozers. I am looking more and more into adding a supplement to my son (and possibly husbands) prescription stimulants. I have looked at length at your articles, but cannot find the answer to these questions.
1. We are looking for an afternoon booster for when my sons Focalin has worn off. For focus for homework help and not to be so emotional. I am hesitant to add an after dose as he already barely eats anything and is under weight.
2. I have noticed that you take several things multiple times a day, but then see dosages on other entries to take once a day….Can we take supplements just in the afternoon and expect them to work fairly quickly? Do they need to build up in the system or should we know quickly if working. I mean I can tell if it is, but if not do we start looking for something different after a week? Month?
Thanks for any thoughts.
Marisa, Focalin is similar to methylphenidate (Ritalin) but you do not mention if you are using instant or extended release. Focalin works by making more dopamine and norepinephrine available in the brain. Which provides the benefits of impulse control and better focus.
The reason why I use the nootropic stack in this post is to help Ritalin do its job by providing more dopamine and acetylcholine in the brain. I dose it throughout the day to make sure my brain has what it needs all day.
I also recommend adding one more dose around 3 – 4 pm so there is no stimulant ‘crash’. The brain is not depleted prematurely of dopamine and norepinephrine by using this stack again later in the afternoon. Which allows me to keep working until I decide to quit for the day.
If you follow the dosage instructions for each of the nootropics in this stack including amounts and time-of-day you’ll find that Focalin doesn’t wear off. It is possible to dose later in the afternoon only. But to get the full benefit of this stack it is better to follow the directions and dose 3 or 4 times per day.
Trial and error is key to making nootropics work for you. The stack I outline in this post is a “suggestion” that works for me and lots of other people. But you may need to tweak it as you gain more experience.
I should have clarified, I was recently diagnosed with ADHD finally hence the addition of Adderall.
Hi David,
I am so glad I stumbled upon this. I am so intrigued and interested in learning as much as I can. I actually am 28, and was diagnosed with depression 4 years ago about losing a close family member. That may have been true, however, I also experienced lots of anxiety symptoms around that time. I have used Zoloft, and often got nose bleeds on that. I went off meds and tried to do with diet alone, and now back on Wellbutrin, and Adderall on 10mg. I have noticed a huge difference adding the Adderall finally. However, If I can help myself in a safer way I’d like to.
I’m wondering since both of the meds I am on now interact with dopamine, would you recommend eliminating some of the examples you gave above?
I do still have hypersexuality/impulsivity and procrastination which may always be an issue, I don’t know.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you,
Kelsey