Depending on the severity of your ADHD symptoms, you may be able to use nootropics as an alternative to prescription stimulants like Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse and their variations.
I experimented for a year by using nootropics in place of the 20 mg of Ritalin I had been using 3-times a day for several years. And for the most part, I was successful in taming my Adult ADD symptoms.
Table of Contents
Adult ADD Nootropic Stack
The ADD/ADHD stack I use includes:
- Mind Lab Pro
- Performance Lab® Energy – twice per day
- Alpha GPC – 300 mg 3-times per day
- ALCAR – 750 mg 1-time per day
- L-Tyrosine – 500 mg 3-times per day
- Sulbutiamine – 400 mg twice per day
- Aniracetam – 750 mg twice per day
- Vinpocetine – 10 mg 3-times per day
- Performance Lab® Omega-3 – 3 gelcaps per day
- 1 tablespoon unrefined Coconut Oil or MCT Oil– 3-times per day
- Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi – 4 caps per day
During my one-year stimulant holiday, the ingredients in Mind Lab Pro along with L-Tyrosine and ALCAR (included in Performance Lab Energy) kept my dopamine, norepinephrine, and acetylcholine levels high enough to maintain focus, motivation and improve my memory. Vinpocetine kept my brain blood flow at optimal levels. And Aniracetam and Sulbutiamine improved my mood.
But after a year I decided to go back to using 20 mg of Ritalin twice per day. Because my workload had me writing 10 hours per day. And maintaining working relationships with 2 or 3 clients at once.
By adding Ritalin back to my stack I was able to reduce the time it would take to complete a project from 3 days to 1 ½ days. Proof to me that my brain couldn’t make it with nootropics alone.
The beauty of continuing to use L-Tyrosine and ALCAR even after I started using Ritalin again was that I avoided the stimulant “crash” that is so common late afternoon when using stimulants. And I was able to reduce the original 20 mg Ritalin 3-times per day down to only twice per day.
And I have not experienced building up tolerance to Ritalin that is so common when using stimulants to treat ADD or ADHD.
Your situation may be different, or ADHD symptoms not as severe. Only you can decide if nootropics can replace ADHD meds. The stack I describe on this page is designed to be used with or without stimulant meds.
Whether you use this stack with meds or without, you’ll need to discover for yourself what dosages of each nootropic are ideal for you. Because the amounts that work for me may not work as well for you. You may need less NALT and/or ALCAR.
Experimenting is the key to success with nootropics. And knowing as much as you can about what’s going on in your brain that needs to be fixed. But after many years of recommending this ADHD nootropic stack to people just like us around the world, we know this works.
The pre-made nootropic stacks mentioned in this post include:
Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi
Prescription “Smart Drugs” vs. Nootropics for ADHD
This post is in response to many emails and questions I’ve been getting about how to treat Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) with nootropics.
So if you are dealing with ADHD, hopefully this post will help. Especially if you are using stimulants like Ritalin, Adderall, Vyvanse, Focalin, or any of the other stimulant prescribed for ADD/ADHD. Or you are trying to deal with ADHD naturally by avoiding prescription stimulants.
This information can also help if you are a student or executive who uses prescription “smart drugs” like Adderall or Modafinil to boost productivity.
Here we’ll dig into the causes of ADHD or ADD in your brain. Symptoms associated with ADHD. And what you can do using nootropics, or nootropics stacked with stimulants to correct ADHD symptoms.
I’ll also include ways to potentiate the effectiveness of prescription stimulants with nootropics so they work better.
If you’ve never ‘officially’ been diagnosed with ADHD, but some of this resonates with you, you could be ADHD or ADD. And this may point you to some answers.
I’ve been ADD all my life. (ADD is ADHD without the hyperactivity). But it wasn’t until about 14 years ago, that a very wise psychiatrist identified what was going on. And why I had been struggling with focus and other problems with behavior. That no amount of self-help books on focus and management could ever correct.
Ritalin turned the lights on for me. And completely changed my life for the better. This was the seed that sprouted my interest in neuroscience and nootropics. And ultimately launching Nootropics Expert®
What is ADHD & ADD?
Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) or Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) are associated with attention and executive function in your brain.
Your prefrontal cortex directs behavior, thought and feeling which are all associated with working memory. These fundamental cognitive abilities that most “healthy” people take for granted, are what make up executive function.
This executive function and working memory give you the ability to:
- Regulate your attention
- Inhibit inappropriate behavior and thought
- Monitor your actions
- Plan and organize your future
If you can’t focus on the task at hand, blurt things out at inappropriate times, have little control over your emotions or actions, and can’t seem to stick to that careful set of goals you wrote down, you may be ADHD.
The Role of Norepinephrine and Dopamine in ADHD
Norepinephrine and dopamine are the primary neurotransmitters involved in ADHD because they play an essential role in attention and thinking.[i]
The “inattentive” type of ADHD is related to issues with the norepinephrine, and the “hyperactive and impulsive” type of ADHD is linked to dopamine dysfunction.
These two neurotransmitters work in concert to maintain alertness, increase focus, sustain thought, effort, and motivation. The only difference between the two is the presence of a hydroxyl group. And dopamine is the precursor to norepinephrine synthesis in your brain.[ii]
Much of what we read about ADHD focuses on dopamine’s function in your brain. But norepinephrine (NE) plays a critical role in activating your reaction to events. And how you respond to the event.[iii] NE is essential for collecting information coming in through your senses. And then modulating your brain’s response.
Any disruption in this NE system can result in ADHD, Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), sleep disorders and more.[iv]
For example, NE working with postsynaptic α2-adrenoceptors (α2-AR) in your brain play an essential role in helping you focus and eliminate distractions when you’re paying attention to something.[v]
This is just one example of what goes wrong in the ADHD brain. My point in bringing this all up is not to overwhelm you with neuroscience.
But to make clear that simply suggesting too much or too little of a single neurotransmitter like dopamine cannot explain the complexity of ADHD.
So using a nootropic like Mucuna Pruriens (L-Dopa) to amp up dopamine in your brain is often not enough to take care of ADHD symptoms. Or using Adderall with someone who has a problem with alpha2-receptor binding with norepinephrine may not get much benefit.
This is the reason that experimenting with various stimulants and/or nootropics is often the only way to find a long-term solution to keeping ADHD under control. And why some respond better to a drug like Ritalin and not as well to Adderall. Or vice versa.[vi]
And recent research shows serotonin and acetylcholine are involved too. Mostly the “hyperactivity” part of ADHD which includes movement, inattention, and impulsivity.[vii]
Smart Drugs Used to Treat ADHD
If you are truly and clinically ADHD or ADD, it is unlikely that optimizing your diet, getting plenty of sleep, using nootropics, and exercising regularly will get the symptoms of ADHD under control.
The most severe forms of ADHD often benefit from using prescription medication. Otherwise known as “smart drugs” in some circles, these meds are typically amphetamines or methylphenidate.
The amphetamine-class of ADHD medications includes Adderall (75% dextroamphetamine salts and 25% levoamphetamine salts), Dextroamphetamine, and Vyvanse (Lisdexamfetamine).
The methylphenidate-class of ADHD medications includes methylphenidate (Ritalin) and its variants like Concerta, and Focalin.
Adderall and Ritalin both work with dopamine and norepinephrine in your brain. But through different mechanisms of action.
Ritalin is a pure uptake inhibitor of dopamine and norepinephrine without any other presynaptic activity.[viii] Adderall on the other hand, has additional presynaptic activity, releasing dopamine and norepinephrine from presynaptic neurons.
The idea for the last 50 years or so, has been if we could boost dopamine and norepinephrine in the brain, ADHD symptoms would go away. As long as we’re taking the medication.
Why Prescription ADHD Meds Often Don’t Work
In an ideal world, taking one pill 2 or 3 times a day to treat ADHD would put your life back on track. And help you function like a ‘normal’ person.
But real-world results often don’t work out as well as theory. For several reasons. For example, what if there’s not enough dopamine or norepinephrine in your brain in the first place? Then stimulants will not work as well as planned because they haven’t the neurotransmitters in place to work with.
You could also have problems with not enough or damaged neuroreceptors. Natural aging processes can slow blood flow or inhibit the production of neurotransmitters. A lack of acetylcholine could prevent your neurotransmitters from doing what they were designed to do.
This is where nootropics can help save the day in treating the symptoms of ADHD.
Optimizing Dopamine & Norepinephrine
One of main culprits contributing to ADHD symptoms is a lack of dopamine (DA) and norepinephrine (NE) in your brain. Or your brain is not using the available DA and NE effectively.
Stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin work to boost levels of these two critical neurotransmitters.
Production of dopamine and norepinephrine in your body follows this metabolic pathway:
Phenylalanine → Tyrosine → L-DOPA → Dopamine → Norepinephrine
Dopamine is converted to norepinephrine by the enzyme dopamine β-monooxygenase, with O2 and ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) as cofactors.
Norepinephrine can be further converted into epinephrine by the enzyme phenylethanolamine N-methyltransferase with SAM-e as cofactor.
Nootropics to boost dopamine and norepinephrine include:
- L-Tyrosine – L-Tyrosine is the precursor to the synthesis of dopamine in your brain. L-Tyrosine enhances working memory, executive function, creative flow states, reduces stress, improves mood and is anti-anxiety.
Suggested dosage of L-Tyrosine or NALT for ADHD is 350- 500 mg twice per day. I successfully stack 500 mg of NALT or L-Tyrosine 3-times per day. Once each time I dose with Ritalin, and a last dose mid-afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash later in the day.
- Mucuna Pruriens (L-Dopa) – Mucuna works as an antioxidant and heavy metal chelator, improves memory & cognition, reduces depression and boosts libido.
L-Dopa is also the direct precursor to dopamine. Suggested dosage of Mucuna Pruriens is 250 – 500 mg per day. But if you’re just starting out with nootropics, I highly recommend using L-Tyrosine or NALT instead of Mucuna Pruriens. Because Mucuna can be more difficult to dose since it directly stimulates the production of dopamine. L-Tyrosine and NALT are more ‘forgiving’ when it comes to dosage.
- N-Acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC) – NAC is an amino acid that regulates the amount of glutamate and dopamine in your brain.
NAC can be used to treat the symptoms of ADHD. And even helps eliminate some of the negative side effects associated with prescription ADHD stimulants. Suggested dosage of NAC is 600 mg 3-times per day.
- NADH – NADH helps increase alertness, clarity, focus, memory and enhances mood.
NADH also helps stimulate the production of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin in your brain. Suggested dosage of NADH is 10 mg per day.
- Phosphatidylserine (PS) – PS can help improve alertness, attention, cognition, memory, recall and mood, and lower anxiety. All issues associated with ADHD.
Phosphatidylserine is a phospholipid component of the membrane encasing every one of your brain cells. PS helps maintain the fluidity and permeability of brain cells. Improving the flow of dopamine and acetylcholine. Suggested dosage of PS is 100 mg 3-times per day.
- Pine Bark Extract – Pine Bark extract helps prevent decreases in dopamine and norepinephrine. And the glutathione (GSH) and GSH-disulphide reductase (GSSG-R) ratio. Neurotransmitter problems which contribute to hyperactivity in ADHD.
Pine Bark extract helps boost blood flow in the brain by increasing nitric oxide which helps dilate blood vessels. And it helps with oxidative stress, membrane damage, DNA damage, inflammation, and glycation.
I’ve found one of the most potent forms of Pine Bark extract comes in both Mind Lab Pro® and Performance Lab® Mind.
A word of caution here in boosting the catecholamines dopamine and norepinephrine. Too much of either is not a good thing. In fact, excess levels of either will throw your neurotransmitter levels out of balance. And can cause anxiety, insomnia and panic attacks.
The “H” in ADHD stands for hyperactivity. Boosting levels of dopamine and norepinephrine can help balance out hyperactivity. And help calm and focus your mind. But often simply boosting or balancing these neurotransmitters is not enough.
Recent studies show that serotonin and dopamine interaction also play a role in ADHD.[ix] Serotonin is involved in the uptake, synthesis and breakdown of dopamine in your brain. Problems with serotonin seem to contribute to behavior and impulse control.
Much more research needs to be done in this area of ADHD. But we can help control and balance serotonin with nootropics.
- 5-HTP – This amino acid is synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan. And 5-HTP is the immediate precursor to serotonin in your brain.
5-HTP can help relieve anxiety and depression, fibromyalgia, insomnia, migraines and likely the hyperactivity, depression and anxiety associated with ADHD. Suggested dosage of 5-HTP is 50 mg up to 3-times per day. Please see our dosage notes and warnings however on supplementing with 5-HTP.
- Ginseng – Ginseng helps calm anxiety, and boost attention, concentration and memory. Ginseng provides neuro-protective effects on the dopaminergic-pathway which can help with ADHD. And ginseng is a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI).
Suggested dosage of Ginseng is 100 – 400 mg per day.
- L-Theanine – L-Theanine commonly found in green tea helps boost alpha and theta brain waves, is anti-anxiety, boosts cognition and memory and reduces insomnia.
L-Theanine also helps boost GABA, serotonin and dopamine levels in your brain. Suggested dosage of L-Theanine is 250 – 500 mg per day.
- Rhodiola Rosea – Rhodiola Rosea helps improve alertness, energy, memory and mood, is anti-anxiety and antidepressant, reduces fatigue and boosts memory and concentration.
Rhodiola influences serotonin and norepinephrine levels in your brain. Suggested dosage of Rhodiola Rosea extract is 150 – 200 mg per day.
- SAM-e – SAM-e helps in the process of cell division and repair. And the generation of dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin.
Suggested dosage of SAM-e is 300 mg per day.
- Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine) – Vitamin B6 helps your brain make serotonin, norepinephrine and melatonin. Suggested dosage of B6 is up to 100 mg per day.
- Vitamin B8 (Inositol) – Inositol as a nootropic can boost serotonin levels which results in feelings of calm, heightened mental energy, and easy thought flow.
Suggested dosage of Inositol is from 500 – 3,000 mg per day.
- Vitamin B9 (Folate) – Folate (NOT folic acid) as a nootropic helps your brain make dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine and serotonin. Suggested dosage of Folate is 400 mcg per day.
B-Vitamins are Critical in Controlling ADHD
Take note that several of the B-Vitamin group are involved in the production of the neurotransmitters involved in ADHD. I recommend adding a good B-Vitamin Complex well above the usual RDA levels that include folate (not folic acid) and methylcobalamin (not cobalamin) to your stack. Both in a pure nootropic stack as well as when stacking with any of the ADHD prescription stimulants.
But it’s not only the B-Vitamins that are required for a healthy, fully functioning brain. We also need each of the 13 vitamins and 13 minerals needed for everything from blood flow, neurotransmitter synthesis and release, brain signaling, and neuroprotection.
I’ve found the easiest way to make sure my ADD brain gets all the vitamins and minerals it needs every day is to also use a multivitamin/mineral supplement.
The best I’ve found so far is a new multivitamin called Performance Lab® NutriGenesis Multi. It’s better than the “raw-food” multi I’ve been using for years. And makes a difference I can actually feel.
But please note that this multi is in addition to a B-Vitamin Complex because the ADHD brain needs more of these critical nutrients than what is normally in any good multivitamin.
The Role of Acetylcholine in ADHD
Researchers at Vanderbilt University Medical Center discovered that there are three types of ADHD.
We’ve already covered the “inattentive” type that is related to issues with the norepinephrine transporter gene. And the link to the dopamine transporter gene in the “hyperactive and impulsive” type.
But the research team now report that a variation in the choline transporter gene is associated with a “combined” type of ADHD. Symptoms include both inattention and hyperactivity/impulsivity.
Choline is required to synthesize acetylcholine (ACh) which is needed for memory, motor-control, focus, learning, concentration, and cognition.
If you have the “combined” type of ADHD it’s likely due to a mutation in this choline transporter gene variation.
Nootropics to boost acetylcholine include:
- ALCAR (Acetyl-L-Carnitine) – ALCAR donates a methyl group in the presence of Coenzyme-A for the synthesis of acetylcholine. And it’s also a shuttle transport for fatty acids through brain cell membranes. It shuttles fatty acids into mitochondria for ATP synthesis, and shuttles toxic byproducts out.
Research from the Linus Pauling Institute shows ALCAR will restore mitochondrial function, replenish age-related changes to mitochondrial structure, and replenishes acetylcholine levels to your brain and body.
And other studies show that ALCAR stimulates nerve growth factor. Helping support survival and growth of neurons. Which is particularly important for the ADHD brain and especially when using prescription stimulants that may be tough on neurons.
- Alpha Lipoic Acid (R-LA) – Alpha Lipoic Acid increases acetylcholine production by activation of choline acetyltransferase and increases glucose uptake. This process supplies more Acetyl-CoA for the production of acetylcholine.
Alpha Lipoic Acid enhances insulin-stimulated glucose transport and metabolism for better brain cell performance. And R-Lipoic Acid provides strong antioxidant support because it helps regenerate and recycle existing antioxidants in your brain including Vitamins C & E, glutathione, and CoQ10.
I’ve since switched the ALCAR supplement in my ADD stack to Performance Lab® Energy because this pre-formulated energy stack contains my preferred dose of ALCAR. But note that I also take another 750 mg of ALCAR with my NALT dose late afternoon to prevent a stimulant crash.
Performance Lab® Energy also contains Alpha Lipoic Acid which helps my ADD brain produce acetylcholine. And has helped reverse the ‘insulin resistance’ my doctor diagnosed me with a year ago.
- CDP-Choline (Citicoline) – Citicoline helps synthesize phosphatidylcholine (PC), a major phospholipid found in brain cell membranes. And provides choline for the synthesis of acetylcholine while providing antioxidant activity.
The CDP-Choline (Citicoline) in my ADD stack is supplied by Mind Lab Pro® which is the base of my nootropic stack.
But a suitable alternative to MLP is the new Performance Lab® Mind which contains the branded form of citicoline called Cognizin®.
Performance Lab® Mind and Mind Lab Pro® also contain L-Tyrosine, Phosphatidylserine (PS), and Maritime Pine Bark extract.
Repairing Neuroreceptors Needed to Control ADHD
One of the issues with neurotransmitters and ADHD are damaged or non-existent receptors. Dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin have less receptors to bind to for cognition and mood control.
Once again, nootropics come to the rescue in helping control ADHD. You can add one of these nootropics to your stack to help boost receptor health.
- Ashwagandha – This adaptogen, Ashwagandha helps reduce anxiety and depression. And helps reconstruct axons, dendrites and synapses involved in neurotransmitter signaling in your brain.
Suggested dosage of Ashwagandha extract is 250 – 500 mg per day.
- Bacopa Monnieri – Bacopa helps boost memory and cognition, improves mood, and reduces stress. This adaptogen affects brain levels of acetylcholine needed to help neurotransmitter signaling.
And the two active components of Bacopa Monnieri called bacosides A and B not only improves signaling of electrical impulses between neurons in your brain. Bacosides also help rebuild damaged neurons. Suggested dosage of Bacopa is up to 450 mg per day.
- Lion’s Mane – Lion’s Mane Mushroom is known for stimulating Nerve Growth Factor, improving cognition and memory, and relieving depression.
Lion’s Mane stimulates the repair and creation of neurons in your brain. Neurons needed for dopamine and norepinephrine to control ADHD. Suggested dosage of Lion’s Mane Mushroom starts at 500 mg per day. Note: that there’s an effective 500 mg dose of Lion’s Mane full-spectrum fruiting body in each dose of Mind Lab Pro®
- Noopept – Noopept helps boost cognition, memory, learning, perception, logical thinking and mood. Noopept increases Nerve Growth Factor, and Brain-Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) critical for neuroplasticity and Long-Term Potentiation critical for long-term memory.
Noopept also prevents the release of excess glutamate in your brain. Providing potent neuroprotection for neurons and reducing damage. Suggested dosage of Noopept is 10 – 30 mg per day.
Please note that I haven’t linked through to supporting clinical studies for each of the nootropics I listed above. But you can click through to my full review of each nootropic for extensive research supporting each supplement.
Nootropics for Kids
ADHD and ADD is most often diagnosed in children. The latest statistics (2011) from the CDC in the USA shows about 11% of children 4 – 17 years of age (6.4 million) have been diagnosed ADHD.[x] And that’s just for the USA.
Although ADHD is usually first diagnosed in children, it often lasts into adulthood. I sometime wonder how my life would have been different if I had been declared ADD when I was a kid.
But it wasn’t until the late 1960’s that the American Psychiatric Association formally recognized ADHD as a mental disorder. I wasn’t declared Adult ADD until much later.
The thing is many parents are wary about putting their children on powerful, prescription ADHD meds. Kids’ brains continue to develop until your early 20’s. So is it a problem messing with brain chemistry at such a young age? Only time will tell and if the benefits outweigh any potential costs.
Hence the reason why parents are looking for ‘natural’ alternatives like nootropics to treat ADHD in children. But are nootropic supplements any safer than prescription stimulants?
Common sense tells me that using L-Tyrosine could be safer than Ritalin for boosting dopamine. And Rhodiola Rosea could be safer than stimulants or antidepressants for taming hyperactivity.
But many children with ADHD, natural supplements may not be enough. I’m not a doctor, and don’t even play one on TV. I’m an ordinary biohacker who has learned as much as I can to help myself. And fix my own cognitive issues. Including Adult ADD.
So I highly recommend you find and work with an open-minded psychiatrist with your child. You may be pleasantly surprised to find you may be able to reduce or eliminate prescription ADHD meds altogether. And maybe not. But the long-term health of your child could be worth the time investment to find out.
I’ve been wanting to write this post since I started Nootropics Expert®. If you are ADHD or ADD, I hope you found this useful. And I’d appreciate your feedback, and share your experience with treating ADHD with nootropics in the comments section of this post below.
Please share this post with anyone you think would benefit. Including discussions about nootropics for ADHD on reddit or Longecity.
One final note. Neurotransmitter balance is key to taming ADHD. I strongly caution you to take it slow if you’re just starting out with nootropics. Carefully read each of the extended articles in the List of Nootropics you are considering trying.
You need to be careful about side effects, prescription drug interactions, dosages and how your body reacts to each supplement.
But I’m confident that with careful planning and a long-term commitment, you can be as successful as I have been in living and thriving with ADHD or ADD.
[i] Arnsten A.F., Li B.M. “Neurobiology of executive functions: catecholamine influences on prefrontal cortical functions.” Biological Psychiatry. 2005 Jun 1;57(11):1377-84. (source)
[ii] Pliszka S.R., McCracken J.T., Maas J.W. “Catecholamines in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: current perspectives.” Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. 1996 Mar;35(3):264-72. (source)
[iii] Aston-Jones G., Rajkowski J., Cohen J. “Role of locus coeruleus in attention and behavioral flexibility.” Biological Psychiatry. 1999 Nov 1;46(9):1309-20. (source)
[iv] Berridge C.W., Waterhouse B.D., “The locus coeruleus–noradrenergic system: modulation of behavioral state and state-dependent cognitive processes” Brain Research Reviews Volume 42, Issue 1, April 2003, Pages 33–84 (source)
[v] Franowicz J.S., Kessler L.E., Borja C.M., Kobilka B.K., Limbird L.E., Arnsten A.F. “Mutation of the alpha2A-adrenoceptor impairs working memory performance and annuls cognitive enhancement by guanfacine.” Journal of Neuroscience. 2002 Oct 1;22(19):8771-7. (source)
[vi] Zametkin A.J., Karoum F., Linnoila M., Rapoport J.L., Brown G.L., Chuang L.W., Wyatt R.J. “Stimulants, urinary catecholamines, and indoleamines in hyperactivity. A comparison of methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine.” Archives of General Psychiatry. 1985 Mar;42(3):251-5. (source)
[vii] Oades R.D. “Role of the serotonin system in ADHD: treatment implications.” Expert Review of Neurotherapeutics. 2007 Oct;7(10):1357-74. (source)
[viii] Wilens T.E. “Effects of methylphenidate on the catecholaminergic system in attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder.” Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology. 2008 Jun;28(3 Suppl 2):S46-53 (source)
[ix] Oades R.D. “Dopamine-serotonin interactions in attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).” Progress in Brain Research. 2008;172:543-65 (source)
[x] “Key Findings: Trends in the Parent-Report of Health Care Provider-Diagnosis and Medication Treatment for ADHD: United States, 2003—2011” Centers for Disease and Prevention cdc.gov (source)
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Hope you are well.
I have ADD/ADHD. I dont take pharmeceutical medication as my blood test shows my fatty liver /bad condition liver caused maybe from eating lots of cakes/chocolates as a kid to deal with undiagnosed ADHD, I am now 36yrs old
Dr said if I do use meds I have to get a blood test every 2 weeks to check on my liver so I would rather try your stack David if its more natural.
MY 3 QUESTIONS ARE BELOW PLEASE:
Will your suggested stack in the yellow box damage my liver long term? I also add rhodiola, ashwaganda vinpocetine, CO110 & tumeric supplements daily with your recommended stack in yellow box.
Also to save money can I buy cheaper options that imitate Mind lab pro? as I am currently using ALPHA BRAIN -By Onnit and its cost effective if I take 4 pills a day spread between morning and afternoon which works out cheaper then mind lab pro.
Will heaps of coffee and or energy drinks with caffeine act as a stimulant like ritalin or dexi would and be a good more natural choice daily?
David Tomen says
Trent, the supplements in this ADHD stack should not cause liver problems if you follow dosage recommendations. But keep an eye on your labs just in case considering you’re not working with a liver that is in optimal shape.
Alpha Brain is a completely different stack compared to Mind Lab Pro. But you don’t need Mind Lab Pro to make this stack work for ADHD/ADD.
Coffee and/or energy drinks are not the same as nor will it work like a prescription stimulant. And do not rely on them esp. considering the condition of your liver. The key to making this stack work is supporting dopamine (L-Tyrosine) and acetylcholine (CDP-Choline and ALCAR) along with the B-Vitamin cofactors.
Thank you David very much. God Bless. Last thing:
-What do you recommend for the liver?, I take milk thistle and lemon in water already on empty morning stomach with intermittent fasting
-is CBD oil useful for ADHD and softer on my liver longterm? I ask because your stack and other tools will be a daily thing for the rest of my life so longterm need to keep the liver in mind
David Tomen says
Trent DHA (Omega-3) will be far more useful than CBD Oil. You need 1,000 mg per day and you can get a month supply for for $13: https://amzn.to/354BVmL
Thanks for that David.
I like that brand but it has Gelatin on the capsule so I will buy another brand that has loads of DHA but in a vegeterian capsule. thanks for the advice
David Glover says
Love your YouTube channel and website! Thank you for all the work you do.
Your preferred stack is quite expensive. What is the minimum effective stack for someone on a tighter budget?
David Tomen says
David, L-Tyrosine, CDP-Choline, ALCAR, DHA, magnesium, and either a bioactive B-Complex or high quality multivitamin. That last part will determine the success of the rest of your stack. And pay attention to dosage recommendations including timing during the day.
David Glover says
David, it seems like stacking Performance Lab Energy, Mind Lab Pro and DHA would meet these requirements. Do you think this would be sufficient or would you also add additional B-Vitamins as well?
David Tomen says
David, to make it work you would need to use the full dose of Performance Lab Energy and Mind Lab Pro twice per day. And you would have better results I think using a bioactive multi like the Performance Lab NutriGenesis Multi instead of a B-Complex.
I have been diagnosed with binge eating disorder and ADHD. I have been on vyvanse and Adderall and it helps to a point but constantly have to go up on doses and want to cut them out completely.
Have you heard of people having adhd, having issues with eating too? I’m not super overweight because I work out everyday but literally get up 4 times a night and binge up to 2000 calories. Mind you I’m not even hungry at all but it’s almost like I can’t control it. A big part of me feels it’s related to all of the chemical imbalances with adhd.
If I started the stack mention above, do you start slow? Or just go into all of it.
Also, do you know of anything that would help with keeping me asleep so I don’t binge? I’ve tried prescription meds. CBD, melatonin, etc.
David Tomen says
Erin, I know a ton about ADD and ADHD but not binge eating disorder.
From the little research I have done it appears to be caused by a dysfunction with dopamine and serotonin. And I believe this dysfunction is due to a gene mutation.
But dopamine and serotonin are also implicated in ADHD as well. Which is why Vyvanse and Adderall are used because they boost the use of an creation of dopamine and norepinephrine.
The stack I describe in the yellow box near the top of this article was designed to support the use of prescription stimulants. And if you use it as I recommend including 2 or 3-times per day you should not need to increase your stimulant dose.
When starting new supplements I always recommend you try them one at a time at first. Try one and if nothing bad happens then add the next. If nothing bad happens then add the next, etc. That way if something goes wrong you’ll know what caused it.
Dopamine and serotonin must be in balance. So, when you are increasing dopamine during the day at some stage you need to increase serotonin to keep those two in balance. And you do that by using 500 – 1000 mg L-tryptophan before bed. That increases serotonin which also helps make melatonin to help you sleep.
Make sure you are using a bioactive multi while using this stack. For you it would one like this: https://bit.ly/2EIyhCA. And you can increase feelings of satiety by using a prebiotic like this one: https://bit.ly/2KzeQi2. That with the rest of these supplements may help your binge eating disorder as well.
Malik Gilmore says
What would you recommend for brain repair from Vyvanse , long story short I was diagnosed with Adhd took stimulants for about a year prior to that i was dealing with p*rn addiction which is said to screw with your dopamine receptors , and I feel like both of these combined fried my brain, it’s been almost 6 months since I’ve used Vyvanse and my brain still hasn’t fully recovered to what I was previously before ever taking Vyvanse . Low energy, can’t focus , bad memory ,absolutely no motivation etc . It’s like the Adhd was magnified X 100. Do you know of Any stacks I could use specifically to repair those receptors ? I did plan on implementing a HIIT training program, and my diet is healthy but will continue cutting out all sugars and processed foods
David Tomen says
Malik, N-Acetyl L-Cysteine (NAC) 500 mg 3-times per day helps restore dysfunctional dopamine receptors. Lion’s Mane Mushroom extract 1000 mg twice per day increases Nerve Growth Factor for neurogenesis needed to repair neurons, dendrites, axons and synapses. And add Mind Lab Pro but double the dose 2 caps in the morning and two at noon. See their website or my review for everything it does.
Do that for a week or two and report back if you experienced any positive changes.
Hi David! Why you didn’t include Saffron? It has the same mechanism of action as Ritalin right? So in theory it could be best addition to tyrosine if we need more dopamine?
David Tomen says
Sandra, Saffron does help with ADHD. And it’s time I updated this page so will include it. Thank you.
Is there any benefit for ATP with doses of ALCAR higher than 750mg? Should I split doses then? Or for example can I take 2000mg at once?
David Tomen says
Adam, according to this study (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19178874/) the elimination half-life of ALCAR is 35.9+/-28.9 hours. So, theoretically it will stay in your system longer if you split the dose not that it’s going to make much difference.
Hi! I’ve been on Concerta 27mg daily but recently my medication has stopped working properly and I feel that I’ve developed a tolerance. However, the Concerta 36mg (the next highest dose) is too strong for me and has caused a lot of bad side effects such as vomiting, depression, sluggish, confusion ..ect. so I would rather not keep taking the higher dose and go back to my normal dose. I’m looking to potentiate the effects of my normal concerta 27mg dose. Should I be using the stack that you listed above with the same dosages? I just want to make sure there aren’t any drug interactions with concerta and if it’s okay for me to mix them with those dosages.
I spoke to an online doctor as well and he recommended Ginko Biloba and L-Cartinine as well. Should I also be taking those on top of the stack? I also don’t want to over-do this and I’m concerned about taking too much and having bad reactions.
I am also a university student at a top level university so I need to do 6-8 hours of studying per day.
I’m also allergic to all nuts (except peanuts), poppy seeds and pomegranate seeds so I just want to make sure none of these nootropics have those ingredients in them.
Thanks for the help!
David Tomen says
Atrena, the basics of this stack was designed to support the use of a stimulant like Concerta. But you may need to adjust the dose of some of the supplements depending on how you react to them.
L-Carnitine cannot cross the blood-brain barrier so is useless in this case. And is why we use Acetyl L-Carnitine instead. You can add Ginkgo Biloba to this stack if you like but it is not necessary.
I just wanted to ask a question in regards to my 9 yr old son who has ASD and ADHD.
We trialled Ritalin for over 3months but as we increased the dose we got major anxiety, sleep disturbances and very bad headaches.
We then decided to introduce Acetyl L Carnitine and L tyrosine with some good results. The last few days we have added very small amount of Rhodiola and we are back to bad headaches as we did with Ritalin.
Are we possibly missing something? Is this a common side effect with Rhodiola?
David Tomen says
Judy, Ritalin is a dopamine reuptake inhibitor and Rhodiola acts in a similar manner although not nearly as potent. It sounds like your son does not do well with dopamine reuptake inhibitors. But responds better to supplements that increase the physical amounts of dopamine and acetylcholine rather than reusing the dopamine that is already in his system.
Vegard bø says
I was wondering if there is any reason why one would choose l-phenylalanine over l-tyrosine? For example Bio availability etc.
David Tomen says
Only that supplementing with L-Phenylalanine is 3 steps away from producing dopamine and L-Tyrosine is 2 steps away from producing dopamine. One may work better than that other depending on the person and how your system uses either supplement.
Manjeet Dagar says
Thank you so much for creating this one stop information solution for nootropics and specially ADHD stack page. This has been very helpful and informative.
I’m 29, diagnosed with ADD last month. It’s severe.I recently started on methyl-phenidate 20 mg one dose after breakfast. It lasts for 1-2 hours only and gives an evening crash which sabotages my 3-4 hours and i can’t get anything done.
First I’m trying to set the base right with daily exercise, low carb diet(please provide your opinion on this), sleep.
I am planning to increase the dosage to 40mg after breakfast. As a beginner which of the nootropics and herbs I should start experimenting with?
David Tomen says
Manjeet, most of the list above in the yellow box. To support the use the methylphenidate and avoid the crash: Mind Lab Pro, L-Tyrosine, Alpha GPC, ALCAR, DHA, and a bioactive B-Complex.
Tyrosine, Alpha GPC, and ALCAR are used 3-times per day with the last dose around 4 PM which helps you avoid the stimulant crash.
Manjeet Dagar says
Thanks for confirmation David. Mind Lab is not available in India, any alternative?
Also can you suggest what to look for in b-complex because all the brand’s available in India are not bio active.
David Tomen says
Manjeeet, you can quickly judge a B-Complex and a multivitamin by checking the type of Vitamin B9 and B12 they use in the supplement.
For example, Vitamin B9 needs to be folate or methylfolate instead of folic acid which is synthetic. And Vitamin B12 must be methylcobalamin which is natural instead of cyanocobalamin which is synthetic and the “cyano” part stands for cyanide. Which you do not want in your body.
There is not direct alternative for Mind Lab Pro. If you cannot get it in India I suggest you look at the Mind Lab Pro label (https://www.mindlabpro.com/) and put together a stack of individual supplements which mimic what is in Mind Lab Pro.
i tried tyrosine for now brand , then tried dr best brand . i noticed now brand worked much better , and dr best brand didn’t work like im taking nothing why some brand work and some of them not , my other question does mucuna will effect the dopamine receptors in the brain ? does mucuna healthy for long term use . because sometimes i noticed gain weight after i used mucuna
David Tomen says
Amro, you asked an important question. Well-known brand names are not necessarily an indicator of quality product. The only way you can do a side-by-side comparison is to ask each manufacturer for a Certificate of Analysis for the batch of Tyrosine you used from their company. And see what the lab testing says about what is in their capsule.
Mucuna Pruriens is used as a nootropic because it contains L-DOPA which is a direct precursor to the synthesis of dopamine. So, it helps supply the dopamine needed to connect to dopamine receptors. It does not directly affect dopamine receptors.
L-Tyrosine is a better option for increasing dopamine in my opinion. It is easier to dose, can be used long-term, and its effects are predictable if you are using a quality product. It is more difficult to predict how much L-DOPA you’ll get from Mucuna Pruriens. And L-DOPA is used primarily for treating Parkinson’s. If you are not dealing with Parkinson’s then I suggest sticking with a L-Tyrosine supplement that works for you.
Hello David, i’ve just discovered your site and I wanna thank you for your will to share your knowledge with all us.
I SUSPECT to be affected by ADHD since the more I go deep into my research the more I recognize myself
after reading your site I was convinced to give nootropics a chance before taking any other chemical stymulant.
Based on my research(and before reading your article) I had formulated this stack:
– Mucuna P. 200 to 500 mg (4/5 days per week)
-L Tyrosine 1000 (2x)
-N. Acetil Cysteine 1000 to 2000 mg per day
After been reading your article I decided to take away Mucuna P.
and modify it as follow:
L- Tyrosine 500mg (3x)
N- Acetil Cysteine 600mg (3x)
Alcar 500mg (3x)
Alpha GPC 300mg (3x)
Rhodiola 150/200 mg per day
Tryptophan 500 to 1000 per day
I understood form your article that a B-complex8or at least high dosage of B6, B8 and B9) are essential but I find many difficulties to find a B-complex that have those you talk about in the same dosages.
I woudl go all in with it but because of my budget I cannot buy them all.
In your opinion which of them are absolutely essential to tame Adhd symptoms and experience long lasting results?
btw I read your article on hacking a flow state and as an artist myself I can witness that the states prior to the experience of flow are really terrifying and are the main obstacle to creation.
If you need some first hand witnesses for your creativity article I have plenty of them.
hope to have not bothered you with such a long mail and with my questions.
thank you in advance for your answer and time.
David Tomen says
Max, this is the B-Complex you need: https://amzn.to/3IvUfor
The rest of your stack looks great for ADHD or ADD. The only “optional” supplement in there is Rhodiola Rosea which you can do without if necessary.
And take the L-Tryptophan before bed to keep serotonin levels up and in balance with the dopamine you are raising during your day.
Massimiliano Failla says
thank you for your quick reply and the useful suggestion ( I found it in an on-line store that delivers its product to Italy).
The only reason I added Rhodiola wad you mentioned it in your flow article and I wanted to help my “creative” side.What do you think about it?
You also mentioned that Ashwagandha could help rebuilding brain cells connections.Did you think would be useful to take it , maybe in the future?
I hope you can give me an honest opinion on this product: https://www.myprotein.com/sports-nutrition/100-n-acetyl-l-tyrosine-powder/10575000.html
this brand has a more convenient price/quantity ratio and I found that the majority of the nootropics I need are available on their italian counterpart.
But as I said earlier, I will trust your opinion and will do my best to take the best ones.
Thanks again Dave!
David Tomen says
Max, Rhodiola Rosea is a great supplement and works for a lot of people. Same with Ashwagandha. I suggest trying both but one-at-a-time and see if either provide the benefit you are lookin for.
That NAC powder looks pure to me. I know nothing about the company so do not know if they can be trusted. Search for customer reviews for that company and see what others say about them.
A quick update about what I suspect being ADHD of the combined type.
After our last conversation In December I started the assumption of the stack I’ve mentioned before but I began to perceive the effects distinctly towards the end of January, the first weeks of February. I realized the substantial difference between the before and the after only now that, having slowly run out of products, everything I told you about in the past has reappeared on time.
I continue to take the most important ones:
– Tyrosine, Alcar and B-Complex in the recommended doses;
– Alpha GPG reduced to two intakes because I noticed the onset of annoying headaches after taking them in the afternoon. I tried to stop taking the latter in the last stack( mid afternoon) and the headaches disappeared.
– Tryptophan: two tablets instead of one.
In my case, taking NAC and PDS probably made a difference.
I noticed that PDS has disappeared from your stack as a standalone nootropic and Vinpocetine and Sulbutiamine have been added.
Are the latter necessary?
Can I exclude PDS as you did and introduce the latter?
A last question:
Should you buy them in powder or capsule form?
Most of the ones I use are powdered but I don’t have a precision scale so I had to trust the doses on the package and the measuring cups inside.
Thank you very much for what you do and for your irreplaceable help.
David Tomen says
Max, there is 100 mg Phosphatidylserine (PS) in Mind Lab Pro. But I’ve found I need another 100 mg PS 3-times per day. If you look at the “How does Phosphatidylserine feel” section of my PS review I think you’ll see why I added it. I need to update my list to reflect that.
Vinpocetine is to increase brain blood flow. And it does it amazingly well. I can tell the difference when I do not use Vinpocetine.
Sulbutiamine is a fat-soluble form of Thiamine. I’ve found years ago that the combo of Sulbutiamine and Aniracetam made a great antidepressant. At least for me it does. But it’s also a great way to repel mosquitoes. I live in SE Florida and we have lots of mosquitoes. When everyone around me it getting eaten alive they circle around me and take off. I haven’t had a mosquito bite since I started using Sulbutiamine. Even in the Florida Everglades!
I get my supplements now in capsules because I haven’t the time to make capsules from powder. But when I used to use powder I got a capsule machine and size “00” capsules and made my own. You do that a couple of times and weigh them using this scale: https://amzn.to/35PfYbS. Every capsule weighs the same and I no longer needed to weigh them. Because I knew exactly how much I was taking.
I am a 40 years old male with a combined type ADHD. I have listed my nootropics and supplements at the bottom. I have the following concerns:
1. All this gives me energy and motivation, but I still feel that I can’t think fast, and analytical tasks take long to finish. When I present my data in the seminars etc, I can’t recall the information fast enough to respond well to questions from the audience.
2. Ideally, I would like to live without Caffeine, but I do not function without it as of now. What do you think I should do?
3. I was on Sertraline (SSRI) for 18 months and I have tapered myself off this. I am thinking of adding Ginko Biloba, do you think I can benefit from it? Any other suggestions would be most helpful.
Thanks in advance
Morning: 200mg caffeine + 300mg L-theanine
Afternoon: 300mg Phosphatidyl Serine + 1000mg ALCAR
Evening: 1000mg Ashwagandha (10:1 extract)
I take the following combo as and when required (up to three times)
500mg A-GPC (90%)
600mg N-Acetyl Cysteine
3 caps PerformanceLab Omega3
Solgar Multivitamins (VM-75) (as advised), and
Ca 100% NRV
Mg 100% NRV
Zn 100% NRV
Fe 100% NRV
David Tomen says
Michael, you are on the right track. But you are not dosing some of these supplements often enough during the day. And you are missing some critical elements that would likely solve your issues.
I suggest you schedule a Personal Consultation with me and we’ll straighten this out. You should experience results within 2 – 4 days. https://calendly.com/davidtomen/60min
I only suggest this because I haven’t the time to go into the detail you need here.
When you talk about the list of nootropics that help, for example, boost dopamine and norepinephrine, balancing serotonin, acetylcholine, and repairing, are you suggesting for each of these areas, that we can try out all or try out only one of them? It seems even though there is a list of them per category, that each nootropic does something different, therefore try them all out? with the exception of L-tyrosine and Mucuna P. Thanks
David Tomen says
Michael, I think it’s time I updated this article so that what most people are using including myself is clear.
I have found and thousands of those dealing with ADD and ADHD know it helps immensely to support dopamine, norepinephrine, serotonin and acetylcholine along with keeping brain cell membranes healthy and blood flow strong.
And that is summarized in the yellow box near the top to include: L-Tyrosine, Alpha GPC or CDP-Choline, ALCAR, Phosphatidylserine (PS), Pine Bark Extract or Vinpocetine, and a bio-active multivitamin and/or B-Complex. Then L-Tryptophan to raise serotonin before bed.
Motasem Abu Moghli says
Hi David, what do you think of adding levodpa + carbidopa 25/250 (medication used to treat Parkinson’s disease) to increase dopamine levels in the brain in combination with MPH?
I’m already takin l-dopa as a supplement and it’s really helping the Ritalin to work better and smoothen the crash associated with using it.
David Tomen says
Motasem, it is a really BAD idea. Look up the side effects for levodopa + carbidopa and you will understand why.
Thank you so much for your information, I’m so happy, because I found it your videos on YouTube. I have Probleme from the kind-hood with focus and concentration and all my life I was thinking I’m stupid, I can not finish my projects, because I don’t have motivation at all.
I have sean one day your video about L-Phenylalanin and I have try it with L tyrosine and L car, my first time in my whole life I hade the feeling that I am some one hhh I have finished many projects with this small stack, but one month later I can not feel the effect any more and felt hopeless.
now I invest lot of money and I have purchased a big stack of Nootropics and I don’t know if I can use them all in the same day or just try till I phone what is good for mi.
1. Alpha GPC
2. Lions maine
5. L Theanine
6. Acety-L Carnitin
7. Rhodiola Rosea
8. N-Acety L-Tyrosin
11. Proanthocyanidine OPC
12. BIO Brahmi
Thank you so much for your help.
David Tomen says
Ismail, you have the right nootropic stack for ADHD but if you are using N-Acetyl L-Tyrosine you do not need to use L-Phenylalanine. Dosages for each supplement are in the yellow box above and in each individual supplement review. You can find each one by scrolling down this list and opening the supplement you want dosages for.
Note that some of these amino acids are used 2 or 3-times per day because they have a short half-life. For example, the L-Tyrosine you take at 8 AM is gone by noon and can no longer make dopamine.
If you need any further assistance I suggest scheduling a Personal Consultation with me here: https://calendly.com/davidtomen/60min
My son was diagnosed with non hyper ADD several years ago. He’s now 17 and continues to struggle in school with focusing. We’ve tried a few prescription medicines over the years but he usually gives up after a month or so and typically does not take them on the weekend. He dislikes them enough that he talked the doctor into lowering his adder all down to 15mg once per day, much lower than normal for his weight. But at least there aren’t any tics and his appetite is a bit better at this dose, it just doesn’t help as much with focusing. I told him about nootropics and he’s interested in trying them. I’m just trying to figure out the best all in one or stack out there. Do you have any recommendations?
David Tomen says
Kim, there is no “all-on-one” stack of nootropics for ADD. If you read the above article carefully you’ll understand why.
Because if you are going to use nootropics for ADD the stack needs to be used 2 or 3-times per day to be effective for the entire day. And it does work. I know because I tried it for an entire year while taking a Ritalin holiday.
So basically I am diagnosed bi polar and adhd and anxiety. I am well managed. I have tried nootropic stacks but I have to watch how how serotonin and and all that I am putting in.
I am wanting to Tackle this with natural stuff.
So I am interested in the yellow box stack up the top.
But I do know that bi polar is because of too much glutamate.
I take 100mg of lamictal at night with clonazepam. See the lamictal blocks too much glutamate and then the clonazepam reduces the anxiety. But then the adhd comes into play which is full on —
I take dexamfetamine during the day — I use to take it with L-theanine sometimes.
I wondering what stack I could take for night is time — I’ve taken 5htp and L-tryptophan and L Theanine and GABA.
But I want to really boost this adhd situation -/ and curb this craving for cigarettes which I quit, it’s not the cigarettes I’m after I know it’s the nicotine — so I’m inclined to want more coffee while I’m on the dexamfetamine during the day – gathering it’s all this dopamine thing.
I want love to get to a nootropic balance and get rid of the other stuff like the lamictal and the clonazepam.
even with the dexamfetamine didn’t feel like I’m functioning full speed like I would like too. And I have done breaks of the dexamfetamine as well. But adhd can slow anything to do with business and work Down. So it’s like I’ve got a scatter brain sometimes —
Would love to take something that’s going to tackle to inattentive as well as hyper but I’m more Inattentive.
So I’m gathering if I ween of
These meds which I have with the lamictal which is a mood stabiliser for the bi polar perhaps there’s a stack that can rejuvenate my Brain and then take something to balance it all out
[edited for length]
David Tomen says
Angelina, the nootropic stack you need for ADHD is what is described in the article above. Dosages are included in the yellow box at the top as well as each individual supplement review.
Glutamate needs to be balanced with L-Glutamine and GABA. You can read more about that here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/l-glutamine/. Some find success stabilizing glutamate by supplementing with L-Glutamine during the day and PharmaGABA before bed.
And how to tackle anxiety here: https://nootropicsexpert.com/best-nootropics-for-anxiety/
If you need more help I suggest scheduling a consultation with me. Here is a link to my calendar: https://nootropicsexpert.com/personal-consultations/
Hello again David! I’m grateful you suggested blood work!!
I got my result back for TH, T3 and T4. And…I am a bit perplexed. And cautious.
P-Tyreotropin (TSH) 3.3 mIE/L (reference: 0.4-4.0)
P-Tyroxin, free (fT4) 23 pmol/L (reference: 10-22)
P-Trijodtyr free (fT3) 6.2 pmol/L (reference: 3.3-6.0)
Given how often I’ve felt general cold, especially in my hands and not being overweight etc, I thought it might have shown indication on HYPOthyroidism. Not Hyper!
One mistake I did was I introduced L Tyrosine 500mg the morning before bloodwork (around 24h lapse).
And same with L Theanin 200mg, 2x, spread over the same day.
These two were the only new additions prior to taking blood work.
The doctor who commented suggested that I should follow up with a new test in 2-3 months. Definitely will do so. I might do it sooner just in case.
Apart from that, I’m not sure how to approach my ADD stack now. I settled on CDP-Choline, ALCAR, L-Tyrosine, L-Theanine, NAC + KSM-66 and lots of DHA. But some of those might effect the thyroid. And in all honesty I have not exactly noticed any particular changes after trying them these past days… I know Ashwaganda might take time so I will let it build slowly. But I’ll discontinue L Tyrosine and L Theanin.
One seems to have immediate effect though!
Usually I get headache after Vyvanse goes out, but I haven’t felt that. I believe this is the CDP-Choline you wrote about. It will be more evident this week when I pick it up again (I take a break from Vyvanse during weekend). So my plan is to stick with that one at least!
David Tomen says
Josef, L-Tyrosine is used along with Iodine to make thyroid hormone. So that may have messed with your labs. Biotin will also mess with the results.
Better to stop using anything containing biotin or Tyrosine a couple days prior to getting a Thyroid panel done.
And I would avoid Ashwagandha if you have thyroid issues because those two do not like each other. See my Ashwagandha review where I mention that.
Got it! I will avoid repeating the same mistake next blood work!
Also it’s unfortunate about KSM-66 since it seems to have relaxing effect. Especially few hours before bed. Think I can introduce l theanine again instead, or will that be just as stimulating for thyroid?
And I bought few other stuffs for my ADD after further reading on this site. Could you clarify few questions?
1) B-Vitamin Complex. Among other things it includes:
B6/P5P – pyridoxal 5′-phosphate
B9/Quatrefolic® – (6S)-5-methyltetrahydrofolate (Quatrefolic®)
It seems quality!
My question when should I take it? And what dosage do you believe is best? Given your resources I think twice the recommended? Just want double-confirmation.
Here is product:
(scroll down and click “NÄRINGSINNEHÅLL” and you will see dosage for 1 capsule).
Holistic Mega B metylerad
2) Magnesiumbisglycinat from the site BULK.
Was unsure if this is chelated or not. Still bought it because it was so cheap…
My understanding is that Mg bond to glycine is chelated? But if not, is it still good?
Was planning take 3 tablets/~300mg before bed-time!
3) Phospatidyl serine (PS), also from BULK. This seem to have “low” dosages with 50 mg. Not exactly sure how many tablets to take and when.
Phosphatidyl Serine Tablets
Thank you as always for your wonderful help!
David Tomen says
Josef, the B-Complex looks like it has the right dosages and form. That is a chelated form of magnesium. And you need 2 tablets of the PS supplement 3-times per day.
Thank you David! I will get back to you after a month of trial and errors!
David Tomen says
Good luck Josef.
Hi David I wanted your opinion on using this stack with amphetamines. I use dexedrine and antidepressant daily.
David Tomen says
Yousef, there is nothing in this stack that is directly contraindicated with amphetamines or SSRIs.